The Observation Deck

Ryan,

I am happy to hear that you are attempting to fix the city's finances. I can handle a mugger in my backyard, but the thought of taking my trash to the curb is certainly sobering!

I am in no position to debate where the fault lies for the current situation nor how best to solve it. I am blissfully ignorant at this point. I hope to change that, so if you ever have a chance to bring me up to speed on the City's budget crisis let me know.

I was shocked, though, by the manner in which this situation was handled at the council meeting tonight. If these tactics are what is necessary to accomplish something constructive within the city government, it is a very disheartening commentary on our political system. Is council so disfunctional to necessitate your tactics?

Thanks for the feedback,
Chris

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:Jim- Your read on this meeting, and the implicit attack on Kevin Butler, is exactly the kind of reporting that you criticize your fellow media outlets of. For the first time I will have to say that you did not get the whole story. That is the problem with this political mess. Nobody in that audience has sat through every meeting for a year to witness the antics of the missing link, Bob Seelie.

PS- Jim, coups involve the military, this was just democracy in action. Wait until Monday and you'll see who is outnumbered.

Ryan

You and I both know this could have been handled 1000000000000000 times better. We both know where the breaking point came in this and we both know why.

I think about three seconds after the Super Bowl, the rhetoric has been ratcheted to such a level, that many of us can't wait, then fear July, August, September, October, and then November.

I know that Councilman Seelie has been a bone of contention for some time with some on council. But so have others. This could have been handled better.

The people that stayed, people of all ages were not calling for Bob's head, Ryan's head, Kevin's head, etc. They wanted to run all of you out of office. There were two woman that were going to start petitions to run all of council out of office.

I walked away from them as Nicki and Mary Louise spent time talking to them.

Like it our not, the talk in the street is not that it is the Mayor's fault, Bob's fault, Ryan's fault, Ed's fault it is CITY HALL's FAULT.

By your own remarks last night, this has been going on for some time. The Lakewood Observer, written by residents(voters), delivered by residents(voters), paid for by businesses and residents(voters) have given city council 1 page opposite Stan Austin to talk about anything you care to talk about. Every other Monday we scramble to fill the page with something else. COUNCIL IS SILENT

I know that the residents(voters) and businesses(taxpayers) have been doing all they can to help get the word out. I sure you can imagine our surprise to find out how bad it was suddenly!

I have gone back through the forum, topic never shows up, while dust gathers in the city council section under government.

This could have been handled so much better.

I know in retrospect you agree.

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:PS- Jim, coups involve the military, this was just democracy in action. Wait until Monday and you'll see who is outnumbered.

Ryan

Democracy! Ryan what happened to decency?

I know that the residents on Woodford will be there in force. I have spoken to them all week. I got news for you, they do not attach any single name to their problem.

I believe you are right.

Monday might be the council meeting of all time.

.

I'm a little slow on the uptake here, what is the problem on woodford?

Jason Stewart wrote:I'm a little slow on the uptake here, what is the problem on woodford?

It would seem the major bone of contention on Woodford is resurfacing.

The street is in desperate need to be resurfaced.

The residents have the right to complain, the street is a mess.

However, it also needs sewers, which the city cannot afford in
the current budget.

I know that Baxterly and another street are waiting on sewers.

This is the problem in Lakewood. We have X amount of dollars, they
are budgeted. If you want to resurface Baxterly you have to take it from
another part of the budget. Much like property, we are built out, to build you must tear down. So it has to make more than what was there.

Thus the game for real life in Lakewood begins.

.

I don't hide my support of Tom George and I never have. I will be working for his reelection because I think he's the best candidate.

I have also been quite vocal about not having the Lakewood Observer make political endorsements. I noticed that the newspaper had both Edward Fitzgerald's and Ryan Demro's mayoral aspirations plastered on its front page.

I certainly understand that Lakewood is facing the most serious budget issues it has ever faced.

I have a real problem when elected officials perform circus antics while supposedly bringing serious issues to citizens and voters.

The fact that no citizen comments were allowed is an egregious violation of civic process in my mind.

Were there another mayor in place and council behaved in that manner, I would still strongly object.

I cannot understand why a special meeting needed to be called when this has been a long-standing issue. Special meetings cost the city money that it doesn't have.

It is impossible to believe that this situation could not have been handled differently.

By the way, the Lakewood Observer is not a public company.

I don't have a problem with council making its decisions with due process, abiding by the city charter.

And I will keep on opining, as I have for many years. It is my right as a voter and a citizen, but I know now that four members of council are not interested in citizen comments.

Obviously many citizens at the meeting got the "wrong read." Council can't control how people perceive the process they put forth.

It wasn't a proud moment in Lakewood's history. Watching council members scurry out the door like mice at the end of the meeting was astonishing.

Except for council members Antonio and Madigan who stayed to talk to those who took the time to attend the meeting.

Lakewood councilmen fail to dump president
But 4-2 vote strips him of chairmanship
Saturday, April 14, 2007
Brie Zeltner and Terry Oblander
Plain Dealer Reporters
Lakewood - City Council failed to unseat Council President Robert Seelie during a special council meeting Friday night...

...Seelie, a council member since 1992, did not attend because he was at his nephew's Catholic confirmation in Texas.

"I think it's outrageous," resident Sharon Kinsella, 57, said afterward. "They don't want to listen to any of us - they want to run out of the room like a bunch of. . . cowards."

Former Councilman Denis Dunn was alarmed by council's "cloak-and-dagger stuff."

Madigan agreed."This is Mario Puzo stuff," she said afterward. "It was four very strong personalities who took advantage of a 4-to-2 situation. This was not about principle, this was about personality."

Hot lin to full story:
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindeal ... xml&coll=2

Headline

Lakewood councilmen fail to dump president

How it is read

Lakewood councilmen fail to dump president.

After a day of basking in the glow of Lakewood kudos.

So we have a member of council, backing the reports, and outside non-Observer backing reports, and a guy that knows cloak and dagger when he sees it backing reports.

Am I missing something?


.

I agree with dl and Jim.

I think that the Lakewood Observer has done a wonderful job showcasing the views of our citizens. If anyone felt that something had been left out, they had only to submit another point of view to the paper.

After reading the Cleveland Plain Dealer's reporting, as well as some of the reactions posted here, I am convinced that we may be about to enter a very difficult time for our city; economically, politically, and perhaps, even in a spiritual sense.

To be perfectly fair to all who were involved in this unfortunate public situation, I might have a little better insight than some, since I sat on the Community Development Block Grant Committee this past year.

While on that committee, we were informed that we were facing a shortfall of dollars that were able to be allocated. Deciding how, and what to recommend to the Administration to be cut, was a heartbreaking task.

As an unnamed Lakewoodite once quipped:

The movers and shakers? They got shook up and moved!

For us remaining, left, right, Democrat, Republican, or whatever.. we are left with an energetic, vibrant, diverse and wonderful city in our hands. Just this past Thursday, over 500 Lakewood Volunteers were feted at St. Gregory's for giving thousands upon thousands hours of great work in Lakewood. THAT'S the community I know! THESE are the "movers and shakers" that I am honored to be associated with.

We have to learn to work together in the public and private sectors in an increasingly creative and positive fashion, with the resources that we have.

We know the classic line about "crisis" also being "opportunity". If we seize the moment here, a better Lakewood can emerge.

It's Kumbayah, in a very real sense, now...or never.

Gary Rice wrote:I agree with dl and Jim.

I think that the Lakewood Observer has done a wonderful job showcasing the views of our citizens. If anyone felt that something had been left out, they had only to submit another point of view to the paper.

As an unnamed Lakewoodite once quipped:

The movers and shakers? They got shook up and moved!

For us remaining, left, right, Democrat, Republican, or whatever.. we are left with an energetic, vibrant, diverse and wonderful city in our hands. Just this past Thursday, over 500 Lakewood Volunteers were feted at St. Gregory's for giving thousands upon thousands hours of great work in Lakewood. THAT'S the community I know! THESE are the "movers and shakers" that I am honored to be associated with.

It's Kumbayah, in a very real sense, now...or never.

Gary

Chopped your message.

Movers and Shakers got up and left? Anyone can move and shake and dance when the sun shines. The real movers and shakers need no sun, and no dance beat, they move and shake. That is when the rubber meets the road. That's when you need real movers and shakers, that is when you need friends and neighbors. The comments yesterday were not, "Poor Lakewood... It was Lakewood is empowering it's citizen's to get involved."

I agree it is the volunteers that not only power this community but secure our brand everyday.

As for Kumbayah, do not start the music yet. I have a funny feeling this might end up like Irish brothers fighting in a bar. You are going to have to let them slug it out. When they can't throw another punch you sort out the mess. Hope not.

.

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:4) This process is internal. We as the members of Council have broad authority to choose our leader.

Was it a public city council meeting called by elected officials?

I have never suggested that council doesn't have the right or duty to choose its own leadership.

I have never suggested that citizens elect council leadership.

Oddly enough, I still believe the public has a right to speak at council meetings.

But evidently some members of council do not believe that citizens always have the right to speak at city council meetings.

I too, was at the meeting.

I certainly don't want to say that I was amused because that would imply that there was enjoyment, but the fact of the matter is that I personally have rallied together groups of "concerned citizens" to speak at council meetings and special/emergency meetings and have been denied public comment at these meetings by the current President of Council. He knew it wouldn't sway the decision or effect the vote and felt it would be a waste of time. This wasn't once or twice it has been several times over the years. He has openly fought to have public comment remain at the end of meetings.

The President of Council is a lot of things but a helpless bystander is not one of them. This played out just as he hoped. This is a win win for him. Why did he cancel the previous Mondays meeting and handle it then?

The majority of the room was not filled with folks that wandered in wonder what was happening, they were called there- from what I could surmise- by Denis Dunn, who was quick to the camera after the meeting. I have always kind of liked Denis in a - gee, we don't agree on one single issue but I like that you make things happen- kind of way.

I don't care for how this meeting was handled, but to say it wasn't orchestrated to some extent on both sides would be untrue. If the 4th vote hadn't flipped, it would have happened and this would be a different story. This minute pressure is not new or unique to politics.

The thing I am most annoyed by is that as a resident of Ward 3, my councilman was portrayed as a someone who is worthy of this type of defending.

I was unable to attend last nights meeting as we were out of state, but I attend council meetings on a fairly regular basis. It's important that we all talk about why some members of council felt the need to do this. Bob Seelie's behavior is what has led to this. His behavior is appalling and some many of the comments he makes are reminiscent of those made by grade school children on the playground. His behavior and snide comments made on a regular basis at council meetings shows me his is unfit to be the council president. Just my two cents.

I don't care for how this meeting was handled, but to say it wasn't orchestrated to some extent on both sides would be untrue.

I certainly don't disagree with this.

From the PD:
"I believe in giving people a second chance, and I am willing to give the council president a second chance," said Dever...
------------

Where have I heard this before?

http://www.tmz.com/2006/12/19/trump-tar ... ter-rehab/

While I'm certainly not a fan of Councilman Seelie nor will I be voting for him this fall, I am a little surprised all this happened without him present.

While perhaps a bit off the thread, this most recent episode speaks volumes and should convince anyone who was still on the fence about the idea of a City manager why it couldn't work here.

If our City Council gets in this kind of fracas over choosing their own leadership, just imagine the level of dysfunction were they to attempt to choose the city's leadership (that is, a city manager)?

Jeff