The Observation Deck

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
I have to ask. What exactly do you want the hospital to do?

First, Lakewood Hospital is a fine facility that provides great service to the community. I don't have any big complaints about the service...except they have transferred hundreds of jobs to Crocker Road and Strongsville along with the service those jobs provide. People I have talked to say that when they complained they were told it was a short drive to Crocker Road. Anyway... as to what I want and or expect:

I am not opposed to hospital expansion. It is a shame that it is located on a street of fine homes. My opposition to the last expansion was simply based on the desire to see hospital expansion take place along Detroit and not along a nice residential street.

Back to what I want...

1. The facility that they had on Madison and Hilliard should be expanded to accommodate the Lakewood patients that they have shipped out to Crocker and Strongsville. That expansion could be part of a general redevelopment of that area. Instead they are downsizing that facility.

2. The hundreds of employees that they have transferred out of Lakewood should be moved back to Lakewood along with the services they provided. How many people served in Westlake and Strongsville have 44107 zip codes?

3. Any future expansion of the Hospital should be along Detroit and not through residential areas.

I only want those three things. If given that they can keep their low rent.
If the Westlake and Strongsville patients are concerned about their doctors moving to Lakewood they can be told that it is a short ride to Lakewood. I am sure they will understand.

Seems pretty reasonable Bill.



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Why is Lakewood Urgent Care on Columbia (in Westlake)?

Doug

PS For those who don't know, yes it is part of Lakewood Hospital.

Hospitals aren't tax exempt, are they? Any chance that the combination of easier access from the freeway and half the tax rate may be a factor? I'd guess the open space and parking may have helped as well.

Maybe Lakewood proper's citizens are too uneducated to understand urgent care. A lot of people like to go to the emergency room for a hangnail.

I believe hospitals would be tax exempt if they are nonprofit organizations, and I believe Cleveland Clinic Foundation (which I believe owns/controls Lakewood Hospital) is a nonprofit organization. Yes I have heard that the city owns the physical real estate on Detroit where the main hospital sits.

Some nonprofits make a lot of money, though.

Doug

Hospitals are tax-exempt.

This is why I am shocked that Bill was looking for a larger footprint.

Lakewood Hospital, puts as much or more back into the community than they would have to pay in taxes to the city.

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Bill Call wrote:
1. The facility that they had on Madison and Hilliard should be expanded to accommodate the Lakewood patients that they have shipped out to Crocker and Strongsville. That expansion could be part of a general redevelopment of that area. Instead they are downsizing that facility.

2. The hundreds of employees that they have transferred out of Lakewood should be moved back to Lakewood along with the services they provided. How many people served in Westlake and Strongsville have 44107 zip codes?

3. Any future expansion of the Hospital should be along Detroit and not through residential areas.

Not just Strongsville or Westlake. The Madison/Hilliard pediatrician office (which now only has Wednesday visiting hours) has been moved to Lorain County at their Avon branch. Not quite the short drive, especially when you are running out a baby to see the doctor on a cold January day (and is causing us to consider a new doctor, which is sad). The doctor that moved was not happy about it (most of her cases were from Lakewood and on into the West Side of Cleveland...probably not as much any more and we even raised a stink with the City about it but to no avail. The Clinic didn't respond at all.

What is sadder about it, we used to get very good phone care from them when they were in Lakewood. They used the Lakewood Hospital phone system at that time and you never went long without talking to a person (usually Joan during the day and a nurse at night). With Avon, you get the "we are experiencing unusual call volume" and sadly, this happens no matter what hour you call (wouldn't that make it "usual call volume?"). It takes a while to get a person and when you do, it is merely so that they can hear who you are calling for and then they go and get the nurse...which entails more waiting. Very poor customer service, again, especially when dealing with kid's issues where you simply don't want to be hanging on the phone all night. Sure, the docs there are still great but the wall of red tape and phone barriers between them and their patients just gets more and more difficult to scale.

That said, we are still very happy with the actual Hospital services we have gotten (again, HUGE props to the maternity folks...the unsung heroes of Lakewood Hospital) and hope it continues to be a valued program in Lakewood. Just bring more folks back to it instead of shifting it outward.

I guess the central question here is:

Are City officials aware that the Clinic is slowly downsizing Lakewood Hospital?

If so, how are they dealing with the problem?

If they are not aware of the staff cut backs, why not?

Or, are they unable to do anything about the problem?

Or, do they think there is no problem?

Are posts a waste of time?

I guess the central question here is:

Are City officials aware that the Clinic is slowly downsizing Lakewood Hospital?

While I am certain that the answer to the inquiry is "yes", I would disagree that this is the central question. The central question, in my opinion, is:

Given a valid and binding contract between the City of Lakewood and the Cleveland Clinic for the lease of the Lakewood Hospital Facility, does the City of Lakewood have any power or authority to limit or mandate the manner in which its lessee chooses to manage its business?

Those damn lawyers have filled our lives with contracts. We sign a piece of paper, and expect that when we go to pick up that new car, the number at the bottom will not have changed. "We're so sorry sir, but between the time you signed the document and the time you arrived to pick up your new Shakabutsi Micro Mini Midget, demand has increased and so we're increasing the price". Once you lease out a store front, as long as the tenant complies with the lease terms, beyond those terms, you have no right to control his activities. "In the future Mr. store owner, I will expect you will no longer sell tobacco products".

Bill, I appreciate your quest to ferret out waste, examine spending and look for ways to enhance our financial position. But in doing so, you simply can ignore the existence of a contractual obligation and the obligations it imposes. Fault the parties that negotiated the contract. Demand that in the FUTURE contracts that changes be made. So....

Are posts a waste of time?

The answer is "yes" when the intent is to somehow look for a way to redo the currently enforceable, in place contractual obligations.

Jeff

Jeff Endress wrote:Fault the parties that negotiated the contract. Demand that in the FUTURE contracts that changes be made. So....

Are posts a waste of time?

The answer is "yes" when the intent is to somehow look for a way to redo the currently enforceable, in place contractual obligations.

Jeff

When I whhhhiiiiine about the contract for the hospital or the blank check contracts given by the school board I am not expecting that the City or the Board ignore current agreements. I am raising the issue in the hope that when these contracts come up for renewal the people representing the City or the Board take time to consider what they are giving away.

So where does this leave us...

The Clinic is slowly cutting back on the employment and services offered in Lakewood. At current attrition rates when the contract period ends the City will be left with an empty shell, a liability rather than an asset.

Since the City is unable to do anything about it I guess it's time to accept the inevitable and move on to another subject.

If the focus of this topic is the future relationship of the mayor and the hospital, is it more beneficial and realistic to spend time enhancing the existing business community? I doubt that the city of Lakewood is going to be able to win a negotiation with the Clinic by trying to restructure an agreement that demands they give us more. I would tend to believe that the Clinic's contribution in the way of employment, stability, and community support sound to be significant. The future leaders of Lakewood should work to maintain that, not try to demand more and risk the loss.
The more logical effort is to draw commercial interests of any kind so the reliance on the Clinic alone can be eliminated and we will not be at the mercy of one entity. Understanding why we lack powerhouses or even above average employers in this city would be something that sounds worthwhile. Who knows maybe down the road if we're stable based on other businesses, the clinic complex can be converted to a for profit business or we can shift city hall to that location to centralize the city operations.

Shawn Juris wrote:If the focus of this topic is the future relationship of the mayor and the hospital, is it more beneficial and realistic to spend time enhancing the existing business community? I doubt that the city of Lakewood is going to be able to win a negotiation with the Clinic by trying to restructure an agreement that demands they give us more. I would tend to believe that the Clinic's contribution in the way of employment, stability, and community support sound to be significant. The future leaders of Lakewood should work to maintain that, not try to demand more and risk the loss.
The more logical effort is to draw commercial interests of any kind so the reliance on the Clinic alone can be eliminated and we will not be at the mercy of one entity. Understanding why we lack powerhouses or even above average employers in this city would be something that sounds worthwhile. Who knows maybe down the road if we're stable based on other businesses, the clinic complex can be converted to a for profit business or we can shift city hall to that location to centralize the city operations.

Shawn

Let me try to understand this.

So we have our mayor build a relationship with the hospital, while we try to cut dependency and bring in other businesses so we do not need the relationship the mayor and the city forged with the largest health care group in America?

Or we take the city with an excess of $23,000 this year and over $50,000,000 in sewer improvements due in the next two years, chase out our largest employer and move city hall there?

Or we get in other high end employers(?) then we get rid of the hospital?

How about we work with the hospital on long term plans that benefit the residents of the city, while they continue to enlarge bringing services to other neighborhoods, while giving back to the city $6,000,000 plus in goods, services and support. How many of those businesses do you think it will take to get $6,000,000 back into the city's education, healthcare, services and civic promotions. Those are some big shoes to fill. Next largest employer is Schools then AT&T with less than 200!

ALL business forecasts have retail/industry falling dramatically, while health care is the number one business in the country.

random thoughts.

So we have our mayor build a relationship with the hospital, while we try to cut dependency and bring in other businesses so we do not need the relationship the mayor and the city forged with the largest health care group in America?

that is not quite what I understood.

What I understood is that we continue to engage the clinic and maintain our relationship while reducing our dependency upon them.

As a small business owner I am sure you are aware of the dangers of allowing one client to have too much of the pie. Should that client leave, through no fault of yours, you are pretty much screwed.

That's the logic here. I find it HIGHLY improbable that any relationship the mayor and the city might have with the clinic would be enough to divert their plans should there be a compelling financial reason for them to leave.

Or we take the city with an excess of $23,000 this year and over $50,000,000 in sewer improvements due in the next two years, chase out our largest employer and move city hall there?

I also don't think this was the point either. I don't recall reading anything about chasing the Clinic away - just acting in a proactive business savvy way to ensure that in the event the clinic should choose to expand in open space surrounding Crocker park (or where ever) and leave Lakewood entirely or in part that we are not left wishing we have thought about what we would do sooner.

How about we work with the hospital on long term plans that benefit the residents of the city, while they continue to enlarge bringing services to other neighborhoods, while giving back to the city $6,000,000 plus in goods, services and support. How many of those businesses do you think it will take to get $6,000,000 back into the city's education, health care, services and civic promotions. Those are some big shoes to fill. Next largest employer is Schools then AT&T with less than 200!

Shawn's first premise was that we SHOULD work WITH the Clinic and nor demand more and chance the loss. The rest is contingency planning which, IMO, we should be doing anyway. And if we don't plan? Well then I guess we deserve whatever we get, dont we?

random thoughts from a different perspective

Charyn

I understand completely about the large client.

For some reason I pictured us weaning ourselves from the clinic, which I could see no upside. Probably a mix of the thread in my head.

Thanks again.


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Shawn Juris wrote:If the focus of this topic is the future relationship of the mayor and the hospital, is it more beneficial and realistic to spend time enhancing the existing business community? I doubt that the city of Lakewood is going to be able to win a negotiation with the Clinic by trying to restructure an agreement that demands they give us more. I would tend to believe that the Clinic's contribution in the way of employment, stability, and community support sound to be significant. The future leaders of Lakewood should work to maintain that, not try to demand more and risk the loss.
The more logical effort is to draw commercial interests of any kind so the reliance on the Clinic alone can be eliminated and we will not be at the mercy of one entity. Understanding why we lack powerhouses or even above average employers in this city would be something that sounds worthwhile. Who knows maybe down the road if we're stable based on other businesses, the clinic complex can be converted to a for profit business or we can shift city hall to that location to centralize the city operations.

Jim,
If it was anyone else I would be happy to explain my point but since it's you, I'll assume that you get my point but just get a kick out of "playing" dumb.