Lakewood Buzz

[Kenneth Warren]

Ms. Roberts:

The legitimation in civic discourse that interests me comes through the properly named human agent.

Again this is only my position and one that informs the LO Deck. I would not bother otherwise.

I accept that annonymous posts on blogs can be a source of opinions, but those opinions are not grounded enough for me to engage seriously for action in real space.

I search the discourse of the LO Deck for signs of hope issued from actual concrete human agents, neighbors with whom I can build and strenghten my city.

It's a tight, particular focus.

Sure I can and do surf and read opinions hither and yon and gratify my hungry brain with no-name stimulation. Though I consider the atomization and anonomity advanced through such ungrounded discourse detrimental to concrete, material body politic.

I have observed, even on a Poetics Blog, how the opening to anonymous posting creates a gush of noise and acting out with little consequence other than annoyance.

The LOgoic eskimo drumming contest of the boys pounding their discursive chests is, no doubt, a turn off for many women.

An old friend, Eva Shaderowfsky, ran one of the early women's spaces on AOL. She told me long ago, at a time when I had no interest in such platforms, that there are differences in approach and preference among the genders.

Generally men dominate this platform, much like talk radio.

Kenneth Warren

[terry batdorf]

Hey Ivor,

I wish you would address the knee jerk reactions of many of the LO. If you actually read my orginal posts and then the subsequent post. You see the how the unprovoked personal attack appears from the "publisher" of the LO. While, you may have to wait to have ur post published on www.lakewoodbuzz.com I doubt the you will have weather the personal attacks from the administrators/staff there.

LO is not a bad website, but it is not the only voice of Lakewood nor should it be. I agree the LO tries to accomplish some good things. The LO folks, particularly the "publisher" shows his lack of confidence and self image when he/they lash out at anything different from themselves.

I am the civil disobedient here. Funny, never thought of myself as the "little guy raging against the machine" but here I guess I am. If you dont blindly follow the JOB/Cowardly Kuch then you will be spanked. Just ask Joan or Joe M.

In future Ivor, read my post and try not to be a Lemming, you have your own mind and voice. Use it. I fought for over twenty so that you could, dont let me down.

God Bless America!!!

Terry

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

In future Ivor, read my post and try not to be a Lemming, you have your own mind and voice. Use it. I fought for over twenty so that you could, dont let me down.

That's exactly what I did. You have no idea what the Observer has done for me within a year.

I don't want to post on the buzz. just like you have the choice to post on there, i have a choice not to.

I've had bad experiences with admins and owners of the buzz since they like to post my work without permission. And with a snappy and defensive email from Steve Fitzgerald after asking to take my work off of his website and personal Lakewood blog on the Cleveland.com website, I've lost all respect for the buzz and interest with what's on that website.

It's great, google my name and you'll find nothing but Lakewood observer links and my personal photo gallery links.

But with that stunt that he tried to pull off, his personal thoughts and beliefs with his entries came up when searching for my name- and i don't associate myself and my hard work with people like him.

good thing he listened, because now my google page looks clean again.

[Brad Humphreys]

I'll be the first to admit that I am out of touch. But when did Lakewood Buzz change to requiring a login just to view posts? It has not always been that way?

With that said, thanks LO for providing an interesting, entertaining, and circus-less (word?) forum.

[Stan Austin]

Brad--- I think it's a unique experiment in negative marketing. Sort of like a big Keep Out sign on a storefront!
Stan

[Tracy Jones]

Brad, Maybe you should be asking this question on the Buzz , as there seems to be a negative bias toward the Buzz here.

[Brad Humphreys]

Tracy,

Thanks. You'll notice by my post count that I am more of a "lurker" than a "poster". So you have tricked me into posting Ahh darn, I knew if I joined here this would happen.

Stan - The observer could add another catch phrase: "Lurkers Welcome".

Brad

[Jim O'Bryan]

Brad, Maybe you should be asking this question on the Buzz , as there seems to be a negative bias toward the Buzz here.

Tracy

You are completely wrong. The Observer has NEVER blocked the words Lakewod Buzz. However the discussion of any part of the LO in not allowed on The Buzz. My name can be mentioned, but not the "other website" even then the posts are usually edited. Matter of facts many posts there are edited by the Adminstrator or Sunny Sky or Bob White whatever name is being used that moment by Steve.

To be honest I am not even sure why the talk exists outside of desperation from the trolls. the difference should be as clear as night and day. As one public official said, "The Lakewood Observer has set the gold standard." Do not worry about us though, we are paid up through 2010 on the discussion board.

We are the group that gives back the the city. We are the group that has a board of 5 not one, with every suggestion by members followed up. We are the group that gives to the schools, not just takes. We are the group that has helped with free concerts for Lakewood, free parties for members.

I could go on but... If you prefer a discussion board where EVER post is read by one or two people to see if it can be allowed, party on

[Tracy Jones]

Your turn to be wrong Jim, since the Buzz has allowed discussion of the LO, it even has it's own thread. I was responding to a statement by Stan, that seemed somewhat sarcastic in reference to the Buzz in a reply to another poster's question. Your personal animosity toward the Buzz founder has been duly noted here time and again, however, I can't say the same in regards to Mr. Fitzgerald. Whatever issues the two of you have , it does you no credit to continually bash the 'other website' especially since I can remember your avid participation in that site not too long ago.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Tracy

Well that is good to hear that he finally allowed a little more unedited conversation there. I personally have not signed on since an ego got in the way of 200 homeless and poor shorted of free haircuts and food before Christmas, being turned into a tool for self promotion by one person who was not even involved. During the Christian season of giving, one person decided to take and ultimately stop those 200 or more from receiving. While helping to fund the effort, I never allowed my name to be associated with it.

That said I spent many hours with Steve, discussing The Lakewood Observer and what we were going to do. A year before the launch of this project, it was the only fair thing to do. Everything we have done since then is everything he promised he had no interest in. The Observer was actually created to not compete. Again, the Observation Deck is one of the smaller parts of this project. Since launch all he has done is go back on those promises and words and try to compete and confuse the brands.

Recently I have sat down with the law department, mayor and planning director all but threatening to sue for them competing with Lakewood Businesses. This was over the FREE listings for rentals. My point was and is The Lakewood Observer does not offer FREE classifieds, but the Buzz does, who is the city to step on the toes of a tax paying business. Dare I say the reverse is not true. To get an Classified we originally asked people to donate at least $5.00 to a Lakewood charity. In response to this the Buzz offered FREE, once again shorting charities of money they need.

Look at the Buzz's recent attempt to once again control the discussion for the financial benefit of one or two people. No lurking! Who is anyone to control the news, information and public discussion for strictly financial reasons? That is an insane greedy paranoia I cannot even comprehend.

Some of my frustration comes from four small points.

1) The Observer is dedicated to moving the city forward, and for gathering civic groups and like minded people to openly talk about what is wrong and what is right. How can we work together to make it better. As we have found out this is impossible unless one person gets one voice, unedited or controlled. While the perception of some is this is Jim's paper the truth is far different. It truly is Lakewood's project. I just had a meeting with our editor Heidi Hilty. She brought up ten points for discussion, she "won" on all points. I did my best to advocate my thoughts but in the end she is the editor, not I. We are now looking to build a much larger "steering group" so that we can continue to serve the city better. This is not one person's website or project. Tracy I am willing to bet that Heidi and DL would be far more willing to listen to your ideas than mine on this project. Dare I say the reverse is not true.

2) Working closely with Lakewood Businesses and non-profits to build awareness and financial futures in this city. While we offer hundreds of incentives for business that advertise and DON'T advertise in the paper, and turn money raised into checks and benefits for Lakewood charities, businesses, schools, and residents. The Buzz it would seem if we are to believe businesses, completely misrepresent their product, while trying to grab $$$$$ for their own pockets, not for the betterment of the city, charities, or the business they misstate themselves too. It is not the way I do business. I have NEVER told or asked a business to not do business with The Buzz, I merely say, compare for themselves. Dare I say the reverse is not true.

3) Two examples. Frank Guan poet laureate for Lakewood. We offered to do a revue of his book in the printed version of the paper. this would have seen one of Lakewood's finest poets get national exposure, and been read by up to 17,000 people in Lakewood. The Buzz would have been mentioned, as it has often been in the paper. Steve claimed The Buzz "owned" Frank! insisting the story be killed. To honor Steve and Frank's agreement, the story which was written was killed. Not the way I support art or try to move the city forward. One of my favorite Observer Vincent O'Keefe called a couple months ago saying that The Buzz was trying to hire him away from the Observer. My answer was simple, "We do not own you." My only concern was that it would fuel the effort by the Buzz to confuse the brands. But it was never mentioned to Vince. He has a family, he is talented, he loves to write, and I do not believe in slavery. The Observer owns no one. To be honest we do not even retain copyrights on the works published, they are retained by the authors, artists, writers, etc. Dare I say the reverse is not true. Wait we know that. Do a search over there on Tom Bullock. He stopped and posted, then when attacked he decided it was just silly to post there. The personally attacks got worse and worse. According to one poster of the Buzz who keeps records of who is who over there, most of those attacks go back to one person using three names. Let's just say they are pretty close to the top of the stack there.

4) Slanderous untrue attacks. I am sure if you go back to the Buzz you will see that I might be the largest poster still. I used my real name even there. While I grew used to the sniping and often handed it back. I was always legally responsible for what I posted. The three times I was seriously attacked, I had no recourse. One comment that really upset me was that I was threatening people trying to vote while working the polls. I view this a serious attack against me, as it would make people think I violated federal laws. The truth was I even held my opponents sign while he made trips to the bathroom, and he did the same for me. By the end of the day we left friends on one of the most decisive votes in Lakewood history. The same has happened to every political official in town, the police, the school board, etc. It is not that it will never happen here. People are people, but here you have the protections of living in America. You are protected by slander and libel laws. If any of this was untrue, Steve would be able to seek judgement. This is not true in the land of faux. Dare I say the reverse is not true.

4) I have kept every promise I have ever made to Steve. Steve has kept none. Going so far as to try to copy much of what we have accomplished. Steve was offered a place at the table, that would have seen the Buzz paid for content, he said it could only happen if he was in charge of the whole project! The secret to this project is there is no control, it is democracy, it is Lakewood, it is not Jim O'Bryan.

If the Buzz underlines your principles and the way you think life should be handled, sniping from the closest. One person using 4-6 puppets/names to win arguments and on and on. Then you should post there, you should enjoy it, you should send Steve a check.

But the Observer is not about that. It is about making this city better for you, the schools, city hall, and especially the businesses and non-profits in Lakewood or that support Lakewood. So that we can keep and attract residents and businesses.

Please do not confuse me pimping a truly civic open project with an attack on the Buzz. I rejoice in the fact we are not trying to compete, but you must have swallowed the confusion, or maybe you have not seen the paper, or been to a meeting, soon you will listen to Lakewood Observer radio and watch TV. Our advertisers and members understand, this is why they are signing up for years, not months to shore up what the "city" is trying to do here.

But when someone like you, does not see the difference I also rejoice in underlining the hard work by 653 Lakewood writers, 37 Lakewood photographers, 535 registered members and thousands of lurkers have accomplished. We are making history, they are trying to copy this product in France, England, San Diego. Lakewood is popping up on more and more radar screens as an open place that supports the arts, and discussion. Businesses are moving in with the knowledge the Lakewood Observer will do everything we can to help them succeed.

Again, you would be far better served if you prefer the closet life to send Steve a check. then you might also pose the same question you asked me. What do you have against the members of the Lakewood Observer? At the recent Beck Center meeting I sought out Steve to shake his hand. Dare I say the reverse was not true.

I would hope that none of the management members of the Observer started any thread about the Observer on the Buzz. I have asked all members of this project to NEVER spam, or troll on the Buzz. I would hope none of us would ever stoop so low. The Buzz and the Observer deserve the right to define our products without troll monkeys playing games that accomplish nothing positive.

Tracy thanks for this chance to clarify. I love talking about the work 3% of Lakewood has done on this project. It is their hard work that has set "The Gold Standard," not just for Lakewood, but newspapers and bloggers around the world.


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[Tracy Jones]

Thanks to you also for proving my point in my initial post that directed a poster to the 'other website' for an answer to the question he had.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Thanks to you also for proving my point in my initial post that directed a poster to the 'other website' for an answer to the question he had.

Tracy

The nature of the Observation Deck and the Buzz is suppose to be an open discussion. Here we like to add the term responsible.

My point was that Stan gave Steve the best advice he, or anyone could give about the point raised.

I answered your question about Steve and I. A fair question, so I tried to answer your question as best as I could. Sorry it was not the answer you hoped for.

You have to understand, I am very proud of what so many residents of Lakewood have worked to build. I am thankful to the businesses of Lakewood, that have now secured the long term future of this project. I am very proud that people like you, Brad and others step forward to prove our points and build the Observer brand of open respectful discussion. Every member of this project deserves a standing ovation for making this possible. To be honest many people outside the city are doing just that.

This very thread proves what public figures have commented, "The Lakewood Observer is the gold standard of civic discourse, news, and civic intanglement in Lakewood."

Ditto on proving my points.


.

[Tracy Jones]

Jim, I never asked any questions, so I am at a loss as to what you are referring to and Stan was offering Brad a sarcastic reply, not any advice as far as I could see. I understand you are very proud of the LO and the residents involved, and with very good reason. I just dislike the rancor that is displayed toward the Buzz founder, or anyone that chooses to utilize the 'other website' with their 'faux' names. Your decision to have posters use their real names is entirely your right, but please don't denigrate those that, for whatever reason, do not feel comfortable using their real names. As I said before, it does you absolutely no credit, for whatever reasons that you may have, to let this bad blood spill over here to the LO.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim, I never asked any questions, so I am at a loss as to what you are referring to and Stan was offering Brad a sarcastic reply, not any advice as far as I could see. I understand you are very proud of the LO and the residents involved, and with very good reason. I just dislike the rancor that is displayed toward the Buzz founder, or anyone that chooses to utilize the 'other website' with their 'faux' names. Your decision to have posters use their real names is entirely your right, but please don't denigrate those that, for whatever reason, do not feel comfortable using their real names. As I said before, it does you absolutely no credit, for whatever reasons that you may have, to let this bad blood spill over here to the LO.

Tracy

Stan did offer a suggestion, snippy it may be, it was a good answer.

My complaints with Steve are over generalized. My job is to keep the Observer from losing money, and to help manage the growth. Again, the Observer is not a discussion board, it is so much more. Not bragging but I know what we have planned for next year. A group systimacially trying to blur the distinction of both products I believe serve neither any useful purpose.

Will not even go into the right of people to post using fake names. It is America of course they have that right. But we have never been about that. Look at the first hundred members, all signed on because no more faceless attacks. That is council, the mayor, the school board. These people more than any other deserve the right to know who they are talking to. Me personally, I see no benefit from posting without a real name. Using another names allows you to loose all rights ov civic discourse, even the security issues are debated wrong.But I will fight for your right, if that floats your boat.

In the end, I am framed by my words and actions, as are you, Stan, Brad, DL, the Mayor, etc. In the end, what I post follows me. I take ownership of my thoughts and my beliefs. How is that bad or wrong? Some think I appear arrogant, and proud, a shill for the city, it is at least me, Jim O'Bryan, building the frame. I come from a world of trust and business. I prefer trust, responsibility and honesty. When I meet a stranger, I say, "Good morning, Jim O'Bryan, how are you?" I don't use fake names, or misspell my name in an effort to confuse. How would that ever build trust, respect, understanding or anything positive?

Thanks for kind words, I am sure the members appreciate your thoughts and kindness.

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[Kenneth Warren]

Ms. Jones:

Your reference to “bad bloodâ€Â￾ and "creditâ€Â￾ yields pivotal insights into the fundamentally ethical question about communication practice in civic space and about the stakes one is willing to wager in the determination of oneself by the ways one distributes attention, organizes words, and orders one’s action for civic engagement through visionary alignment, even when "There are no hierarchies, no infinite, no such many as mass, there are only eyes in all heads, to be looked out of" (Charles Olson, Letter 6, The Maximus Poems).

Judgments and choices about the spirit of belonging to a civic platform must be made up and down the line.

Some are good and some are bad.

Some are right and some are wrong.

Hence some prefer to lurk.

Who is to say?

Who is to see?

That’s what a real name is for.

Kenneth Warren