Trash, Traffic Jams, Maggots and City Services

Bill Call · Post by **Bill Call** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:59 am

Dan Slife wrote:They brag about spending hours at home while on the clock.

Maybe we need this:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06199/706637-53.stm

Jeff Endress · Post by **Jeff Endress** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:06 pm

Interesting Bill....particularly the union objection to a varifiable time clock.

Don't know that that would help as far as the problem identified by Mr. Slife. Even if you have a finger print time clock, who monitors the workers once they leave the garage?

Ans: Nobody

Might be interesting to do a Carl Monday approach.....follow a couple designated trucks and document the results. Maybe there's an LO intern who'd like to be an investigative reporter?

Jeff

dl meckes · Post by **dl meckes** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:46 pm

What if you have a job to complete and "x" amount of hours to complete it?

If I'm paid by the day to get something done, I might just take all day to do it.

PS - We have never had any less than positive experiences with the refuse/recycling folks and find that we can practically set our watches by when each team arrives.

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:04 pm

Give me a place and a time, and I'll snap a few snapshots!

The Observer will have it's own paparazzi photographer before you know it!

Phil Florian · Post by **Phil Florian** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:07 pm

Ivor Karabatkovic wrote:Give me a place and a time, and I'll snap a few snapshots!

The Observer will have it's own paparazzi photographer before you know it!

I can't think of anything more frightening than that. Honestly, Karl Monday-esque journalism is the worst kind of sleeze. Who among us would be happy to have people spy on us in our jobs without us knowing?? Be up front about it. That is the point of the LO; upfront dialogue. I can't get behind this, even if partly in jest.

Joan Roberts · Post by **Joan Roberts** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:15 pm

Phil Florian wrote:
I can't think of anything more frightening than that. Honestly, Karl Monday-esque journalism is the worst kind of sleeze. Who among us would be happy to have people spy on us in our jobs without us knowing?? Be up front about it. That is the point of the LO; upfront dialogue. I can't get behind this, even if partly in jest.

Absitively agree. All workers get legitimate breaks. But if a sanitation worker is in his truckat the time (what else is he supposed to do?) it looks like he's loafing.

Let's deep six THAT idea. The paparazzi should follow Mr. O to Cheesecake Factory instead!! I hear if you catch him, he picks up the tab!

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:02 pm

Who among us would be happy to have people spy on us in our jobs without us knowing??

this is a constant reality down at jacobs field for me. They even send "secret shoppers" to us and record what we say, and then we hear about it at meetings. I haven't heard anything.

Hey, my belief is if you're doing your job right then it doesn't really matter who watches.

The paparazzi should follow Mr. O to Cheesecake Factory instead!! I hear if you catch him, he picks up the tab!

I don't like cheesecake so the offer is up for grabs for everyone else!

DougHuntingdon · Post by **DougHuntingdon** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:38 pm

Ivor, I think you should do it. I think a lot of city workers have friends or family on this message board. For any investigation like this, though, I think you should set out with an unbiased agenda. Maybe you will find nothing scandalous but will find interesting things, such as how many houses put large piles of loose maggots in their trash. Which streets have the most trash? Which streets have the most interesting trash? Which streets put out so little trash you wonder if they keep it inside? Too often the Karl Monday-esque exposes try too hard to find something scandalous, rather than try hard to find the truth (whether it be good or bad). I must say, though, that the report he or one of his contemporaries did a few years ago about the drunk postal workers was pretty informative and entertaining!

Doug

Jeff Endress · Post by **Jeff Endress** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:46 pm

Some added information:

Almost got missed again today....but caught the cushman and was advised that they won't come through a closed gate. First I ever heard of that restriction. So....if you have a gated back yard, keep the gate open on pickup days.

Jeff

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:49 pm

I would never engage myself in a job/assignment where I could potentially cost other's theirs.

I'm thankful for the job that the city workers do, no matter if it's done correctly or not. I think it's done correctly, because in my opinion Lakewood is one of the cleanest cities around.

Phil Florian · Post by **Phil Florian** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:58 pm

Hey, my belief is if you're doing your job right then it doesn't really matter who watches.

Well, "doing your job right" really depends on a) knowing what the job is and b) the person watching you knowing what the job is. Also timing is everything and the temptation of paparazzi is to time things that make interesting photos, not true journalism. There already is a bias from the start of the thread, even though there have been just as many positive comments as negative ones. So when you go to take pics are you simply going to drive by and take pics of workers doing their job? Or will you seek out those that aren't? Will you know why they aren't?

I think there needs to be some foot work prior to such an expedition. As someone pointed out, if the job is simply "do X amount of streets per day" and some times it only takes 5 hours to do it, well that leaves 3 hours. Maybe some days they have to use those 3 extra hours for maintaining vehicles, make up for a missed holiday, pick up extra stuff at a contstruction site, etc. Who knows. But for someone already believing and generalizing the idea that there are city workers abusing their jobs or doing it poorly...well, I have to say, that is everywhere and we pay just as much for this sort of thing at McDonalds as we do in our City.

So what I am saying is, let's not stoop to the level of Karl Monday. There is ALWAYS something juicy out there but I think we need to look at the basics first and find out what is the job, how long does it take to do it, what is the expectation of the homeowner/renter, what is the expectation of the city worker, etc.

As example, I have mostly positive things to say about the clean up on my street. I have had to ask questions of the guys at times and most of the time they are genial enough for me and give straight answers, which is all I ask. When they haven't picked stuff up, we found out why and fixed it. When I have had to get rid of all sorts of yard waste, old kitchen, etc. they have never left a thing behind or dumped it on my car. Should I take a picture of that?? Would it make for an interesting picture??

Phil

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:28 pm

there seems to be a clear misunderstanding here

when I said

I would never engage myself in a job/assignment where I could potentially cost other's theirs.

I really did mean it.

If you guys want to snap away the pictures feel free to. But I came out saying it as a joke.. not as an offer or idea.

Mr.Florian maybe you missed the bottom of my comment where I stated:

I'm thankful for the job that the city workers do, no matter if it's done correctly or not. I think it's done correctly, because in my opinion Lakewood is one of the cleanest cities around.

Paparazzi sniping isn't photography, and if you ask anyone that knows who I am and how I go about my photography it's always in the most professional, journalistic and unbiased way possible.

"So when you go to take pics are you simply going to drive by and take pics of workers....."

I won't take part in any of this. This isn't my style of assignment. If it doesn't have highly talented high school musicians playing instruments or anything athletic to do with it don't count on me to cover it.

The End.

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:30 pm

and if you do decide to take those interesting pictures

....I suggest you use a small "pocket camera" and snap away!

That's the greatest piece of advice I can offer.

:lol:

Phil Florian · Post by **Phil Florian** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:41 pm

Ivor Karabatkovic wrote:Give me a place and a time, and I'll snap a few snapshots!

The Observer will have it's own paparazzi photographer before you know it!

I guess this is where the misunderstanding started. I figured it was in jest to a point but I think there are folks on here that might start to think this way. I wasn't directly this soley at you, Ivan, but anyone who thinks this is the best way for citizens to engage with their City. Those cameras can always be turned back on us. I am glad you aren't engaging in it! But watch out any high school musicians not playing up to snuff!!

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:50 pm

this is the best way for citizens to engage with their City

hey photography has worked wonders with me in the city. it's exactly how I engage with Lakewood. But Phil is right, if you're reading this threat and do decide to engage with the city using Photography, take pictures of the beautiful, newly renovated Lakewood Park or Detroit- the most happenin' street around town. Heck, you'll even find some hawks in your backyard or a vintage baseball game going on! Don't take part in anything foul!

.....and that pocket camera advice really works. Believe me, it worked wonders for Mr.Endress!