The Observation Deck

Dana Baker wrote:Mr. Crnolatas,

point number one:

We just purchased a car-based SUV.

Dana

I take it back some of the new car based SUVs do have some pretty good numbers, but still!!!


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Jim O'Bryan wrote:
So then Walmart and the US has nothing to worry about?! As soon as these cards come in, it will shoot up like a roacket! First I am not sure of this, second where do the profits kand while we wait?

I'm not sure why you're focused on Walmart here. While it is true that Walmart's sales numbers did not meet expectations, their sales were still up from a year ago at this time by 3 to 4 percent. Focusing on Walmart not meeting their expectations is like saying that a reduction in an expected rate of growth in the government sector is actually a cut.
Other retailers did much better than WalMart, which should make all the WalMart haters happy.

Joe

Joseph Milan wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
So then Walmart and the US has nothing to worry about?! As soon as these cards come in, it will shoot up like a rocket! First I am not sure of this, second where do the profits land while we wait?

I'm not sure why you're focused on Walmart here. While it is true that Walmart's sales numbers did not meet expectations, their sales were still up from a year ago at this time by 3 to 4 percent. Focusing on Walmart not meeting their expectations is like saying that a reduction in an expected rate of growth in the government sector is actually a cut.
Other retailers did much better than WalMart, which should make all the WalMart haters happy.

Joe

Who? Online sales up everything else down or flat. Walmart disappointed.

Not a Walmart hater, Sam is a genius. However I don't shop there, and feel it is American cannibalism.


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Mr. O'Bryan:

Car based SUV v/s 9 year old Civic.

Same gas milage. A 1 1/2 hour highway trip taken by both cars resulted in the same amount of gas being used. (1/2 of 8 gallon tank, 1/4 of 16 gallon tank.) So I'm going by approximates.

Believe I'm telling the truth, or don't.

Mark:

thanks. I wasn't on the road in the 70's, except maybe in my car seat, so on those topics I have to go with what I've read, or what my parents, and people of that generation tell me.

Jim, you are right, at this moment in Lakewood, solar power isn't worth it per se.

However, I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet. In the south and sourth west or places where there is lots of sun, homes can be entirely powered by solar energy and they even sell the power back to the electric company.

Plus, they are doing incredible things with not using the unsightly panels that we used to know, but putting it into paint and into roof tiles - incredible.

And we aren't even really using passive solar energy - positioning homes and windows correctly in a home to take full advantage of the sun, whether it is to get more or less depending where you live. It can make substantial changes.

The YMCA home we toured in Lake County was powered by GeoThermal energy. It is a neat idea that needs to be developed too.

I'm really excited about the potential for windmill farms - I think the research in Bowling Green in not a windy area shows very promising results.

But we don't get anywhere if we don't do research on it. We can make things more effiecient, but renewable energy resources I believe is the answer.

My personal opinion is if we put a quarter, or even a tenth of the money we have spent in Iraq on Energy research, we wouldn't have a need to be over there. It is all about the oil, not bringing democracy to the Iraqi people.

Joe


I was just watching FOX News, I do it every morning. And they are reporting Walmart had a record year at it cost American workers 6 billion in work.

So I might be wrong on the Walmart having a bad Christmas.

More later. Just want to keep it fair and balanced.


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I was just watching FOX News, I do it every morning

and yet you find yourself able to function for the remainder of the day?

Jim O'Bryan wrote:


Who? Online sales up everything else down or flat. Walmart disappointed.

Who? Best Buy - up 6 % from last December. Circut City - up 11%. Even Starbucks up 7 %. Retailers did even better, one of the shining stars was Urban Outfitters, up 30%.

I could quote increases all day on this thread. Instead, I suggest you watch some MSNBC, the Nightly Business Report on PBS or read something on the web other than doom and gloom liberals who seem to have managed to get you to believe their lies.

Jim O'Bryan wrote: Crocker Park and Legacy Village. A place to go and walk and window shop. Look at their numbers.

In my simple mind, Grow Lakewood nearly nailed it. Offices not retail. Offices bring in people, people who shop at lunch, and some stay and live here. You show me someone that moves next to a mall, and I will show you someone with a shopping and a credit problem. But they missed, for obvious reason, something else that brings people to cities, and these people stay and spend money there. BIG ASS apartments/condos. Then let them order online, because they will fill the supermarkets, restaurants and entertainment in and around the city.

Mr. O.

I have to challenge a couple of your assertions. The fiirst is that Crocker Park and Legacy Village are somehow failures. You say "look at their numbers" but I wonder what you mean. Virtually every store's individual sales figures are proprietary and very closely-guarded, so unless you have someone inside breaking corporate policy by feeding you numbers, I don't know how factual that is. Judging from my recent visits to places like Trader Joe's, CP is indeed off to a good start. Everyone I saw at CP today was carrying a bag.
Second is the comment about "BIG ASS apartments/condos" What's above all those shops at CP? uhoh. "BA" apartments/condos. And what's across the street? The kind of offices the Grow Lakewood report wanted instead of stores.
If your theory about oil is right, you WILL be able to live, shop, and work without a car. But you'll be able to do it at Crocker Park, not in Lakewood.
Now I know there is no prayer for a CP in Lakewood, nor would we necessarily want to do something like that anyway. However Lakewood is not an island, wha other cities and towns do, does have an impact on what we have here, and we do have to respond and compete.

Joan Roberts wrote:Mr. O.

I have to challenge a couple of your assertions. The fiirst is that Crocker Park and Legacy Village are somehow failures. You say "look at their numbers" but I wonder what you mean. Virtually every store's individual sales figures are proprietary and very closely-guarded, so unless you have someone inside breaking corporate policy by feeding you numbers, I don't know how factual that is. Judging from my recent visits to places like Trader Joe's, CP is indeed off to a good start. Everyone I saw at CP today was carrying a bag.

Everyone. Everyone you saw at Crocker Park was carrying a bag. Everyone. OK let's dig into my facts. We can judge the success of Legacy Village very easily. Taxes generated. Last year with 100% occupancy, taxes from Legacy Village came in 80% under projections and almost 90% under what was promised. Switch those percentages to here and that other thing would be losing $600,000 or more a year over what was there! If you want, call me I would love to go to Crocker Park with you and see everyone buying and carrying bags. But it simply not true.

A friend at Borders said it was another down year. They blame traffic and Barnes and Nobles, but Barnes and Nobles didn't hit their numbers either. So those must of been young ladies with "Coach Bag bags" though I have yet to see anyone in that store. Or maybe doggie bags from the restaurants whose window seating is packed, but behind them many open tables.

Joan Roberts wrote:Second is the comment about "BIG ASS apartments/condos" What's above all those shops at CP? uhoh. "BA" apartments/condos. And what's across the street? The kind of offices the Grow Lakewood report wanted instead of stores.
If your theory about oil is right, you WILL be able to live, shop, and work without a car. But you'll be able to do it at Crocker Park, not in Lakewood.

Joan why even come back to this hell?

The apartments above Crocker have less than 10% occupancy. This could be because some residents have to park two football fields away in open garages. You know the garages involved in two large drug arrests with guns this past holiday season. As witnessed listening to the scanner.

Joan Roberts wrote:Now I know there is no prayer for a CP in Lakewood, nor would we necessarily want to do something like that anyway. However Lakewood is not an island, wha other cities and towns do, does have an impact on what we have here, and we do have to respond and compete.

I am not sure Lakewood is not an island, and some of the recent plans I have seen almost make it an island. Why would we need a faux city based on a real city like Lakewood? That is insane talk. Call and ask Stark the developer of Crocker Park what he thinks of Crocker Park. I think part of the quote we have is, "Never again, a city without a soul."

But what is even better we are but 7 minutes away(for me) and we have non of the traffic, non of the problems, none of the crime, and a city that is relatively quiet with a great future.


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Jim O'Bryan wrote:But what is even better we are but 7 minutes away(for me) and we have non of the traffic, non of the problems, none of the crime, and a city that is relatively quiet with a great future.

Seven minutes away? Rocky River?

Mr. O.

Sorry for touching an apparently raw nerve. As I hoped to make clear, I don't believe that a one-fell-swoop Crocker Park-type development is or should be in Lakewood's cards.
I respectfully submit that your trash-talking about the development seems more emotional than factual. People ARE shopping and buying there (yes, pretty much everyone DID have a bag this afternoon, and the parking lot was full). I can't verify your 10 percent occupancy rate for the residential, but it's only been operational for a few months. Meanwhile, Lakewood has sold 1 out of 174 units at Rockport Square, so two years into that project, we have a .54 percent sales rate. Obviously when it comes to "BA apartments/condos" things are tough everywhere.
My real points are that these places exist and that the shopping, office, and residential activity that happens THERE is that much less that happens HERE. I'm not a big enough thinker to offer much in the way of suggestions and in the long run it doesn't particularly affect me either way.
It just doesn't seem intellectually honest to pretend there is no appeal to places like that.

Joan

It is only a raw nerve because of thinking in the box. I am amazed at how stuck to in the box thinking everyone is.

I am not against economic development, far from it. I am for responsible economic development. Many in this forum that have been labeled against economic development are for responsible economic development. I know of a plan that will have an impact on my rental, but I have not whispered a word, as the developer is trying to get everything in order. At that point I will see if it makes sense or not. Right now is seems silly, but has some strong points.

I have seen no less than 4 plans since starting the paper that deliver "Crocker Park" to Lakewood. The only one that makes sense is Savannah Farris' Lakewood Park Project. It is the only think I can call visionary.

Common sense should rule some of this. Westgate failed, Beach Cliff failed. Both have better access to freeways than anything proposed in Lakewood. That should be #1 if we are serious about building to attract from out of the city.

Now Rocky River is building Crocker Park Light and I have a feeling, it will be about as successful as the Beach Cliff Market it replaces. But it brings Crocker Park within seconds of Lakewood. But I am sure that will not be close enough for some.

My two biggest thoughts are: While Malls being in people maybe, it also brings crime, pollution, noise, light pollution and large empty spaces. To me this does not seem like a good neighbor or property easy to change. At least offices offer more change ability. Let's think back to that mall they were building on the west end of Lakewood. No real benefit for 30 years. The internet has only been around in a strong position for 10 or 15 years. Who can even imagine where it is in another 10-15. As old people like us that need to touch and hold things before buying die off.

"Taxes" The selfish little red herring. For decades I have had friends that had kids in schools come by and convince me each cycle that property values are tied directly to schools. And they are right. I voted for each one. The city has made strong cases for their tax hikes and the one now aimed directly at me and my business I will also probably vote for. But some of my friends and neighbors who kids have grown and left school think Lakewood's taxes are too high. The best way to bring them down is to get some of Lakewood finest residents to move, so we can get more for their property. This takes me back to a discussion no one on this board wants to see again. Do a search for "The Donner Party."

To me it is easier to think of casinos. If Cleveland had built a Casino 30 years ago it would have made a ton of sense. We would have dran from all over the coutnry. Today if the city were to whore itself out to a casino all we would get is the people between Toledo(maybe) and Erie(maybe). To me it is not a big enough slice of the pie to be a whore.

Lakewood has forever been a city that had a little industry and a little shopping. But it was one of the best places to raise a family. Recently 2 newspapers and one magazine reinforced that with Best Suburb in the county. To me the answer is obvious. Big Ass condos, just one or two more would make the city solvent, and provide a great boost to local businesses. Even is some of the occasionally leaked to Crocker Park to carry bags. Home is where the heart is, not where the mall is.



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Mr. O.

Let's please not belabor this, but I do want to make it clear that I don't advocate anything like Crocker Park in Lakewood and your posts somehow suggest I do. That's YOUR "in the box" thinking.
I guess I should point out that I am not particularly connected to Lakewood. I have lived in a number of cities in the Cleveland area in my life and I expect I'll live in one or two more before I go "toes up".
Lakewood is fine. Not great, but fine. There are things to enjoy and there are limitations. Ii don't own a home now and I probably wouldn't buy one in Lakewood because of the taxes and the fact that I really don't have the time, talent, or interest in taking on an old house. Been there, done that. It would be nice not to have to deal with Great Northern or Westlake every time I needed a new blouse, but doing it isn't killing me, either.
I have friends and relatives scattered throughout the area, and I will see them no matter where I live. That's the important thing in my life, not my zip code. Whatever gets built or doesn't get built in Lakewood doesn't change that. I appreciate your passion for Lakewood, but alas, I don't share it. I live where I live based on whether a city meets my needs, and Lakewood does. For now.

Joan

It would seem that both of us are on the same track. I too have spent some time around. But the last 25 back in Lakewood.

When I look at the long term way the country/world is going I think Lakewood, along with most Great Lake/River cities has a huge jump on the rest. I understand what you are saying, and appreciate your clarification. For years my wife and I drove all over Ohio looking for that perfect 5-30 acres to retire in. But as we looked at various items in our list it seemed that only Lakewood came close to what we really wanted.

As you can tell, I am ready to make my stand here in the town I love. I will continue to do the little things I can do to make the city better and more desirable to people like you, young or old. It will not be easy. But it will not be expensive either. To me in my "golden years" all I need is safe, clean, fun and living with other energized people wanting the same.



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