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[Corey Rossen]

I will disagree with this....I am EXTREMELY skeptical that St. Ed's ended the series.
They will enthusiastically embrace a return for scheduling, logistical, and marketing reasons.
They have had an extremely difficult time scheduling games over the past 10-15 years.

You are absolutely correct, Mike; St. Ed's did NOT want to end the series and their administration at the time was very disappointed with the decision.

My apologies, I stand corrected. How did you obtain the information on who cancelled the series because it always turns into finger pointing?

That being said I am extremely curious as to why Lakewood would cancel the series. I have always concluded that St. Ed's cancelled the series for the reasons I had mentioned previously. This also tied in with my belief as to why St. Ed's travel plans included playing highly ranked opponents outside of the Cleveland area. (This also leads me to wonder how Ohio computer points are earned while playing schools outside of Ohio.)

In accordance with Michael's post - You are correct about the marketing value of the game and the large draw in attendance. This also makes me wonder why Lakewood would cancel the game that brings the most gate and concession money. I am not sure how it works, or who gets the money, but any large revenue game helps.

To your "Friday Night Lights" point - The Friday Night atmosphere happens regardless of the team. For example, one of the largest crowds I played in front of at an away game (which was larger than any home game in this instance) was completely sold out. During pregame warm ups I walked past the admission gate and heard this exchange between the ticket-taker and a guest. Guest: "So, who are we playing tonight?" Ticket-taker: "Don't know, some team from Cleveland I guess." Basically the "if you build it they will come mentality" happens everywhere on Friday night during the Fall. The fact that St. Ed's plays on Saturday against ranked opponents probably meant great gate/concession sales for the opposing team. When those teams travel to Lakewood to play a home St. Ed's games the stadium is packed. Those are the games that attract the media attention, so I am politely second guessing your low coverage on Saturday games due to lack of Friday Night Lights feel. Those games also provide the computer points to keep them in playoff contention each year (as opposed to playing a sub par Lakewood team).

Wondering - Does St. Ed's get the gate/concession money on their home games and have it go towards renting the field from Lakewood? Or how is that arrangement structured?

I am very surprised that Lakewood would cancel such a money making, feel good, neighborly series. I look forward to the series coming back and can't wait to see Coach Ribar go 14-0 in his next 20 seasons as Lakewood's coach!

Corey

[Michael Deneen]

[/quote]
My apologies, I stand corrected. How did you obtain the information on who cancelled the series because it always turns into finger pointing?

I've never bothered to ask directly because it is basic logic. St. Ed's will play virtually anyone (out of necessity). Last year they were still working to fill their schedule as late as the summer. It's very difficult for independent teams to schedule, especially if they are very strong.

I don't know the specific person who made the decision for Lakewood or reason why Lakewood stopped. However, the games had become uncompetitive, so it was not a crazy decision at the time. Also, the high school computer system does not reward losses against hard teams (unlike college basketball's RPI scales), so there is much less motive for Lakewood to play. Also, Lakewood's attendance is generally better than Ed's (if you factor out the Ignatius game, which is an insane outlier), so they have less financial motive for the game.

"The fact that St. Ed's plays on Saturday against ranked opponents probably meant great gate/concession sales for the opposing team. When those teams travel to Lakewood to play a home St. Ed's games the stadium is packed. Those are the games that attract the media attention, so I am politely second guessing your low coverage on Saturday games due to lack of Friday Night Lights feel."

Opposing teams from far away do not bring students or even a marching band. Kids from Cincinnati, for example, are not going to invest an entire Saturday traveling to and from Cleveland just to watch a high school game. They would rather stay home to do teen stuff, and perhaps watch any of the dozens of college football games on TV.

The visiting fans are mostly parents and families of the players. There are also some boosters, and a few local "recruiting nerds". The "nerds" come to see a specific player on the other team because he may or may not be going to the nerd's favorite college. ESPN, specifically ESPNU, is trying to build this into a Mel Kiper-esque cottage industry.

The Saturday games get modest (if it's a home game) or no (if it's road) media coverage.
Four local TV stations have "Friday Night Lights" highlight shows on after their late local news. These don't exist for Saturday high school games.
The Sunday PD sports page consists of two parts: The Browns/NFL preview section, and few pages of OSU/college reports. (I have joked to Bill Livingston that the PD looks like the OSU Lantern on fall Sundays).
The Ignatius game, of course, is the outlier...it will get a front page mention on Sunday.

"Wondering - Does St. Ed's get the gate/concession money on their home games and have it go towards renting the field from Lakewood? Or how is that arrangement structured?"

When Ed's played Lakewood, they would alternate each year as the official "home" team. Just like with "Jets/Giants" or "Lakers/Clippers", the "home" team gets the bulk of ticket revenue. However, I believe the Lakewood Athletic Boosters work and get concession money from all Ed's home games at FFL Stadium, regardless of opponent. Ed's pays rent to Lakewood on every home game at FFL.

[Scott Meeson]

I will disagree with this....I am EXTREMELY skeptical that St. Ed's ended the series.
They will enthusiastically embrace a return for scheduling, logistical, and marketing reasons.
They have had an extremely difficult time scheduling games over the past 10-15 years.

You are absolutely correct, Mike; St. Ed's did NOT want to end the series and their administration at the time was very disappointed with the decision.

My apologies, I stand corrected. How did you obtain the information on who cancelled the series because it always turns into finger pointing?

That being said I am extremely curious as to why Lakewood would cancel the series. I have always concluded that St. Ed's cancelled the series for the reasons I had mentioned previously. This also tied in with my belief as to why St. Ed's travel plans included playing highly ranked opponents outside of the Cleveland area. (This also leads me to wonder how Ohio computer points are earned while playing schools outside of Ohio.)

In accordance with Michael's post - You are correct about the marketing value of the game and the large draw in attendance. This also makes me wonder why Lakewood would cancel the game that brings the most gate and concession money. I am not sure how it works, or who gets the money, but any large revenue game helps.

To your "Friday Night Lights" point - The Friday Night atmosphere happens regardless of the team. For example, one of the largest crowds I played in front of at an away game (which was larger than any home game in this instance) was completely sold out. During pregame warm ups I walked past the admission gate and heard this exchange between the ticket-taker and a guest. Guest: "So, who are we playing tonight?" Ticket-taker: "Don't know, some team from Cleveland I guess." Basically the "if you build it they will come mentality" happens everywhere on Friday night during the Fall. The fact that St. Ed's plays on Saturday against ranked opponents probably meant great gate/concession sales for the opposing team. When those teams travel to Lakewood to play a home St. Ed's games the stadium is packed. Those are the games that attract the media attention, so I am politely second guessing your low coverage on Saturday games due to lack of Friday Night Lights feel. Those games also provide the computer points to keep them in playoff contention each year (as opposed to playing a sub par Lakewood team).

Wondering - Does St. Ed's get the gate/concession money on their home games and have it go towards renting the field from Lakewood? Or how is that arrangement structured?

I am very surprised that Lakewood would cancel such a money making, feel good, neighborly series. I look forward to the series coming back and can't wait to see Coach Ribar go 14-0 in his next 20 seasons as Lakewood's coach!

Corey

Corey,

Let this sports enthusiast shine a little sunshine on this subject for you:
http://www.lakewoodcityschools.org/Board/Members/14

I've heard he's a very curious and resourceful school board member that will pursue the who's,what's, why's and how's of the various questions/concerns that may be within the scope of his duties as a school board member. Give him call!

[Corey Rossen]

My apologies, I stand corrected. How did you obtain the information on who cancelled the series because it always turns into finger pointing?

I've never bothered to ask directly because it is basic logic. St. Ed's will play virtually anyone (out of necessity). Last year they were still working to fill their schedule as late as the summer. It's very difficult for independent teams to schedule, especially if they are very strong.

I don't know the specific person who made the decision for Lakewood or reason why Lakewood stopped. However, the games had become uncompetitive, so it was not a crazy decision at the time. Also, the high school computer system does not reward losses against hard teams (unlike college basketball's RPI scales), so there is much less motive for Lakewood to play. Also, Lakewood's attendance is generally better than Ed's (if you factor out the Ignatius game, which is an insane outlier), so they have less financial motive for the game.

"The fact that St. Ed's plays on Saturday against ranked opponents probably meant great gate/concession sales for the opposing team. When those teams travel to Lakewood to play a home St. Ed's games the stadium is packed. Those are the games that attract the media attention, so I am politely second guessing your low coverage on Saturday games due to lack of Friday Night Lights feel."

Opposing teams from far away do not bring students or even a marching band. Kids from Cincinnati, for example, are not going to invest an entire Saturday traveling to and from Cleveland just to watch a high school game. They would rather stay home to do teen stuff, and perhaps watch any of the dozens of college football games on TV.

The visiting fans are mostly parents and families of the players. There are also some boosters, and a few local "recruiting nerds". The "nerds" come to see a specific player on the other team because he may or may not be going to the nerd's favorite college. ESPN, specifically ESPNU, is trying to build this into a Mel Kiper-esque cottage industry.

The Saturday games get modest (if it's a home game) or no (if it's road) media coverage.
Four local TV stations have "Friday Night Lights" highlight shows on after their late local news. These don't exist for Saturday high school games.
The Sunday PD sports page consists of two parts: The Browns/NFL preview section, and few pages of OSU/college reports. (I have joked to Bill Livingston that the PD looks like the OSU Lantern on fall Sundays).
The Ignatius game, of course, is the outlier...it will get a front page mention on Sunday.

"Wondering - Does St. Ed's get the gate/concession money on their home games and have it go towards renting the field from Lakewood? Or how is that arrangement structured?"

When Ed's played Lakewood, they would alternate each year as the official "home" team. Just like with "Jets/Giants" or "Lakers/Clippers", the "home" team gets the bulk of ticket revenue. However, I believe the Lakewood Athletic Boosters work and get concession money from all Ed's home games at FFL Stadium, regardless of opponent. Ed's pays rent to Lakewood on every home game at FFL.[/quote]

Thanks for the response.

A few quick notes.

The Lakewood vs St. Ed's game have been uncompetitive for all but a few years. I think there was a span of 17 years (or more) before Lakewood won at one point. So the idea of a victory, sadly, had almost always been ruled out by Lakewood - except for those on the field who always thought that they'd win!

I would think that Lakewood and Lakewood's Boosters would fight to keep their best attendance (and revenue generating) game, not the opposite as you mention.

The fan base of the Independent teams that St. Ed's plays is strong. This is the same case when St. Ed's travels to their schools otherwise these schools would not be seeking out these teams to play. Strong teams have strong followings. St. Ed's is a strong team and their opponents are always strong so the math adds up.

Saturday games have great coverage. Due to travel, more and more high-ranking teams are playing each other on Saturdays. A case could be made that Saturday match ups are better than Friday Night match ups.

However you look at it, it is exciting to know that the rivalry could be returning.

Corey

[Michael Deneen]

If you can't be at the game, you can listen to an audio stream from St. Ed's at this link:

https://sehs.site-ym.com/?sehs_football_broad

[Corey Rossen]

I will disagree with this....I am EXTREMELY skeptical that St. Ed's ended the series.
They will enthusiastically embrace a return for scheduling, logistical, and marketing reasons.
They have had an extremely difficult time scheduling games over the past 10-15 years.

You are absolutely correct, Mike; St. Ed's did NOT want to end the series and their administration at the time was very disappointed with the decision.

My apologies, I stand corrected. How did you obtain the information on who cancelled the series because it always turns into finger pointing?

That being said I am extremely curious as to why Lakewood would cancel the series. I have always concluded that St. Ed's cancelled the series for the reasons I had mentioned previously. This also tied in with my belief as to why St. Ed's travel plans included playing highly ranked opponents outside of the Cleveland area. (This also leads me to wonder how Ohio computer points are earned while playing schools outside of Ohio.)

In accordance with Michael's post - You are correct about the marketing value of the game and the large draw in attendance. This also makes me wonder why Lakewood would cancel the game that brings the most gate and concession money. I am not sure how it works, or who gets the money, but any large revenue game helps.

To your "Friday Night Lights" point - The Friday Night atmosphere happens regardless of the team. For example, one of the largest crowds I played in front of at an away game (which was larger than any home game in this instance) was completely sold out. During pregame warm ups I walked past the admission gate and heard this exchange between the ticket-taker and a guest. Guest: "So, who are we playing tonight?" Ticket-taker: "Don't know, some team from Cleveland I guess." Basically the "if you build it they will come mentality" happens everywhere on Friday night during the Fall. The fact that St. Ed's plays on Saturday against ranked opponents probably meant great gate/concession sales for the opposing team. When those teams travel to Lakewood to play a home St. Ed's games the stadium is packed. Those are the games that attract the media attention, so I am politely second guessing your low coverage on Saturday games due to lack of Friday Night Lights feel. Those games also provide the computer points to keep them in playoff contention each year (as opposed to playing a sub par Lakewood team).

Wondering - Does St. Ed's get the gate/concession money on their home games and have it go towards renting the field from Lakewood? Or how is that arrangement structured?

I am very surprised that Lakewood would cancel such a money making, feel good, neighborly series. I look forward to the series coming back and can't wait to see Coach Ribar go 14-0 in his next 20 seasons as Lakewood's coach!

Corey

Corey,

Let this sports enthusiast shine a little sunshine on this subject for you:
http://www.lakewoodcityschools.org/Board/Members/14

I've heard he's a very curious and resourceful school board member that will pursue the who's,what's, why's and how's of the various questions/concerns that may be within the scope of his duties as a school board member. Give him call!

Thanks.

[Sandra Donnelly]

I will disagree with this....I am EXTREMELY skeptical that St. Ed's ended the series.
They will enthusiastically embrace a return for scheduling, logistical, and marketing reasons.
They have had an extremely difficult time scheduling games over the past 10-15 years.

You are absolutely correct, Mike; St. Ed's did NOT want to end the series and their administration at the time was very disappointed with the decision.

My apologies, I stand corrected. How did you obtain the information on who cancelled the series because it always turns into finger pointing?

Corey

After the St. Ed's/Lakewood game was dropped, my husband, Dan, and I were having lunch with Brother Peter Graham, who was the President of St. Ed's from 2001-2010. When I asked him about the decision, he expressed extreme disappointment that the game was cancelled, and said that St. Ed's really wanted the game to continue. The game has always been special to me, since my husband (an Ed's alum) had our first date after the game in 1995 that Lakewood won after a spectacular catch by Ryan Rustad.

[Corey Rossen]

I will disagree with this....I am EXTREMELY skeptical that St. Ed's ended the series.
They will enthusiastically embrace a return for scheduling, logistical, and marketing reasons.
They have had an extremely difficult time scheduling games over the past 10-15 years.

You are absolutely correct, Mike; St. Ed's did NOT want to end the series and their administration at the time was very disappointed with the decision.

My apologies, I stand corrected. How did you obtain the information on who cancelled the series because it always turns into finger pointing?

Corey

After the St. Ed's/Lakewood game was dropped, my husband, Dan, and I were having lunch with Brother Peter Graham, who was the President of St. Ed's from 2001-2010. When I asked him about the decision, he expressed extreme disappointment that the game was cancelled, and said that St. Ed's really wanted the game to continue. The game has always been special to me, since my husband (an Ed's alum) had our first date after the game in 1995 that Lakewood won after a spectacular catch by Ryan Rustad.

That is a great way to remember the game.
I have a lot of great memories from the rivalry as well. I think all former Rangers and Eagles do!
Corey

[Michael Deneen]

No happy memories for the Rangers tonight.

Eagles dominated in a 75-31 win.
It was over early...the Eagles looked VERY good.
I didn't think so a month ago, but they might repeat as state champs.

It's too bad for the Ranger fans...the Lakewood student section was larger than all three other schools combined.

I'll have a detailed account in the paper.

[Corey Rossen]

Sandra, Michael and Scott - thank you for the civil conversation, it is truly refreshing.

Corey