The Observation Deck

J Hrlec wrote:
I have been there a few times in the past and it's not bad and cetainly affordable. The complaint I would have is that it is 2014 and they still are not accepting credit cards to my knowledge. Yeah, yeah....transaction fees and such. Well maybe they should set a mimimum purchase for credit payment. I had more fees from taking cash at their ATM then the few cents they may have occurred on a credit transaction. Does not leave you with a good feeling after breakfast.

Many people do not carry cash today, so it would stink to have someone not from the area try the place and then be stuck in the same situation.

Will Brown wrote:How much are the fees charged a merchant for accepting a credit card. I could be a substantial cost for some businesses. I don't know anyone who doesn't carry some cash. If you are taking $15 out of an ATM to pay for breakfast, I think I see the problem.

Well, that's the problem when people make old timey assumptions. The bill for the family is usually over $40+ and you're also incorrect because today debit and electronic payment is the most popular methods of payment. I appreciate that your personal acquaintances carry cash, but unless they are the TPTB customer base and the restaurant doesn't need any new customers it is highly irrelevant.

I would hope that a 2-3% surcharge would be much less substantial to a BUSINESS much less than a higher ATM surcharge to an individual....but who knows?

I continue to find it so very odd that so many people are so eager to pay a 2-3% convenience fee on everything they buy by using credit cards. I can't imagine most of these folks would be so complacent if the sales tax were increased by that much.

Until recently, merchants in the US were contractually bound to charge the customer the same amount whether he paid by credit card or by cash. I know that some merchants did give a cash discount, but they did this at the risk of having their credit card privileges withdrawn. The EU banned this practice, and it is fairly common that you can negotiate as much as a 5% discount from hotels by offering cash. The point I would make is that the fees charged vary from merchant to merchant and is not generally available, so when someone pooh poohs a small fee that is charged to the merchants, he would appear to be inventing facts to support his claim.

From my perspective, I pay nothing for using a credit card (in fact, less than nothing since my bank gives me money for using their credit card). since the merchant charges the same for the product whether I use a credit card or pay cash. Since some merchants won't or can't participate in the credit card scheme, a refusal to deal with cash limits where you can shop. I recently paid my property tax; I let them make an electronic fund transfer from my bank, which I view as the equivalent of paying with cash (I could have mailed a check, or visited their office and paid cash, but the fund transfer to me is more convenient). They offered the option of paying by credit card, but charged a fee for that.

I agree that many people use credit cards, but I'm not sure that is a good thing; apparently a huge number of people don't control their impulses, and are carrying large unpaid balances on their cards, and paying interest rates that would shock a loan shark. The credit card field is a major profit center for the issuers, and I really doubt that they are in the business to benefit the customer.

There may be a fee for using ATMs with a credit card; I've read that that is a real moneymaker for the banks, and I have a debit card that avoids those fees.

Indeed. The ship has already sailed. As you said, the vast majority of places charge everyone more as a result of credit card transaction fees so using cash doesn't save you anything. (Unless you go to a cash-only business or one of the few that give cash discounts of course.) And if I use cash or a non-rewards card, I'm actually contributing to your cash back or other rewards. The article linked to below is OK; I had a better one but lost it.

http://money.msn.com/credit-cards/do-cr ... eston.aspx

It has been funny some of the conversations this thread has developed. Many people sending me their favorites to review. The actual concept here is, if you like you review it, because if I do it, I will say what I want, and that leads to hurt feelings.

The gist of the original article which most never read past the headline was, Bob Evans has a goo constant product in a clean, friendly atmosphere, and that ANY Lakewood restaurant can do it better and cheaper, but then need to find constancy, goodness, and value. Since then we have been eating around town, and now it gets tough.


A Lakewood favorite.


Neither of Matt or I had cash. Ohhh well, maybe later.


Back to The Shore. I had been before but didn't save the bill, so, Matt Markling ordered a corned beef omelet on top, I got a ham and cheese. omelet


I found the breakfast to be consistent with The Shore. Good ham and cheese omelet, OK hash browns, and coffee.


$25.00 with tip added in.

As far as Bob Evans, it's on...



Next?

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I have been there a few times in the past and it's not bad and cetainly affordable. The complaint I would have is that it is 2014 and they still are not accepting credit cards to my knowledge. Yeah, yeah....transaction fees and such.

I never carry cash, unless I know I am going somewhere that only takes it and then I have to make a special stop at an ATM. Which means every time we consider The Place to Be for Breakfast, we usually go elsewhere.

I have to agree with these comments. I am very unlikely to work that hard (make a special trip to the bank or atm) just to be able to eat in one of the cash only establishments. Just recently I was already parked and getting out of the car with my daughters in the parking lot behind the Place to Be before when I suddenly remembered that I needed cash. Guess what, we elected not to walk a block or so to the atm and just got back in the car and drove to River for breakfast.

I've come to believe, rightly or wrongly, that in 2014, if you still aren't accepting credit cards at your restaurant, it must be because you wish to hide part some of the income from being taxed, which is easily done if you only take cash. It's the only reason I can think of for forcing your customers to make special preparations to eat in your restaurant. Again, I have no evidence; it's just a gut feeling. A breakfast for my family of four easily costs $35- $40 - if they can't figure out how to absorb a credit card fee in that margin then... I don't know what to say - I don't believe that's the case. My brain tells me they don't want the paper trail.

"I am very unlikely to work that hard ... we elected not to walk a block or so to the atm and just got back in the car and drove to River for breakfast."

Wow. Just, wow.

The hard reality is that dealing on a cash basis protects one from becoming mired in debt, and apparently many of us lack the self-control to keep us out of debt. An article today reported that fully 33% of Americans are under some form of debt monitoring because they cannot manage their own affairs.

I've heard the allegation that a merchant who won't take credit cards is cheating on his taxes, particularly from Europeans, where tax cheating is apparently common. Each allegation, of course, lacks a factual basis to support it, which makes me question the character of the proponent, who apparently spends a lot of time trying to figure out how to cheat on his own taxes. since everyone else does it.

Using electronic funds does not equal credit card debt / irresponsible borrowing.

The hard reality is that dealing on a cash basis protects one from becoming mired in debt, and apparently many of us lack the self-control to keep us out of debt.

So the suggestion here is that these businesses are trying to protect me from going into unmanageable debt by taking cash only. That's a laugh.

"I am very unlikely to work that hard ... we elected not to walk a block or so to the atm and just got back in the car and drove to River for breakfast."

Wow. Just, wow.

Really, not wow at all. I'd already spent over a decade of my life realizing that I needed to go to the atm after arriving at whichever of my favorite lakewood breakfast places. That's a real annoyance (and a waste of my time) in my opinion. At some point, my desire to support my city's local and independent restaurants is exceeded by my desire to just walk in and pay for my food the way I pay for everything else: with real funds that are sitting inside my bank account attached to this little card. See, I can overlook Spin charging me $20 for a water bottle holder to go on my bike even though I can get one from amazon for $5. I understand the one Spin is selling me is extra lightweight (even though I don't need that) and that I want this bike store near me. Same thing buying soccer shoes, and other items, at Geigers, it costs a little more but this means I help these stores stay in Lakewood and I won't be forced to drive all the way out to Crocker Park when I need something. But don't try to dictate how I am going to pay for it or make it totally inconvenient for me to pay for it. See, that's what I'm willing to pay for - my convenience.

There are also studies that prove that people spend more when using electronic funds. If I go take $40 out of the bank for my breakfast, we aren't going to impulsively order an extra side of bacon, because that might put us over the $40. If the best way to do business was to only accept cash, electronic purchasing wouldn't be everywhere except in lakewood breakfast joints. It's silly to argue otherwise.

I've heard the allegation that a merchant who won't take credit cards is cheating on his taxes, particularly from Europeans, where tax cheating is apparently common. Each allegation, of course, lacks a factual basis to support it, which makes me question the character of the proponent, who apparently spends a lot of time trying to figure out how to cheat on his own taxes. since everyone else does it.

Also, it doesn't take any time at all to realize an all cash business is in a position to cheat on taxes very easily. Have you not watched any TV or movies in the past 20 years? And like I said, its just intuition. I wrote it down because I am surely not the only one who it occurs to and perhaps business owners need to know that those (unfounded but still there) suspicions arise from this practice (of not accepting credit cards).

Thanks for questioning my character though. I guess anyone involved in law enforcement or governance must be of questionable character to you since they all must spend time considering the possibility of improper/illegal behavior.

Todd, I completely agree, I would rather pay slightly more for a product I want that is also convenient. Isn't that the whole point of this thread - if small businesses don't step up to the quality and convenience offered by big chains, they will lose out. I'd rather support a Lakewood business, but if that business is not interested in making it more convenient to take my money then I'll be breakfasting at Bob Evans instead. And credit card processing is more convenient for businesses in many ways - yes, you pay a fee, but the money is in your bank by the next day, no need to have lots of cash on site. Having been the person with the full deposit bag going to the bank at night to drop off the cash, I was always glad that the bulk of the daily receipts were electronic and not cash.

Amanda Tabor wrote:Isn't that the whole point of this thread - if small businesses don't step up to the quality and convenience offered by big chains, they will lose out. I'd rather support a Lakewood business, but if that business is not interested in making it more convenient to take my money then I'll be breakfasting at Bob Evans instead.

Amanda

Thank you, for getting it.

FWIW, Borderline took down the cash only sign, I think.


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Todd, I agree with on the cash only issue. It always seems shady to me as well for the same reason.

I purposefully went to Place to Be for the first time just recently (after 12 yrs living in the wood) just too check it out bc of this thread. My older son was with me, because of the amount of cash I had, they lost revenue because we had to limit our order. There is much money to be made in the area of convenience, I didn't go get more money out and I bank at First Federal. I limited my purchase, smart for me...not for them.

I went to an extremely popular Chinese restaurant who asked us to leave a cash tip. I won't go back. It made me very uncomfortable having been in the hospitality industry, whatever immediate monetary gain there is in this practice will not out way the legal ramifications.

Quote:
"I am very unlikely to work that hard ... we elected not to walk a block or so to the atm and just got back in the car and drove to River for breakfast."

Wow. Just, wow.


Really, not wow at all. I'd already spent over a decade of my life realizing that I needed to go to the atm after arriving at whichever of my favorite lakewood breakfast places. That's a real annoyance (and a waste of my time) in my opinion.

Just to be clear, my "wow" comment refers to the implication that walking a block is hard work (or work at all) and that it's less of an annoyance or waste of time to drive from the center of Lakewood to somewhere in River versus simply walking to an ATM a block or so away.

I try hard not to be judgmental - obviously I fail sometimes. Ultimately, to each their own. I know our modern American lives are cushy, but once in a while I have to shake my head at what some folks consider convenient or not.

I personally don't find keeping some cash on me any big deal. Kind of like I don't find keeping some gas in the fuel tank any big deal. But I was a boy scout and I've always "been prepared". Again, I can't imagine the outrage if sales taxes went up by the same percentage. Yet people actually demand to pay inflated prices for the sake of convenience. But that's what people seem to want to do and I guess if businesses don't follow the trend they do in fact risk losing out. I just hope more places start to give discounts for cash so I can benefit more from the choice.

The world is different today and businesses must adapt.

My kids never carry cash on them - they use credit cards for everything, and I mean everything, like a $1 iced tea at McDonalds, which I could never do. But before you assume that they are abusing credit, let me assure you that they are excellent with money - they have excellent credit scores and pay their charges in full every month so they aren't the stereotypical people who go crazy with a card because they don't equate it with money going out. In fact, they use cards for two reasons. One is convenience, the other is that they like having a record of where their money goes and a credit card lets you see exactly where you are spending money. In addition, many cards offer perks like money back, extended warranties, and purchase protections. Finally, if you get robbed or lose a purse or wallet, a card can be replaced, cash cannot.

The younger generation lives differently than we did; they buy online, they use plastic, the read a Kindle instead of books. Different isn't always bad.

In sum, a cash only business is handicapped, to their own detriment.