LHS Among Best Schools in Nation!

[Bill Call]

While it is nice to get national recognition, the actual numbers do not seem to be very heartening to me. They aren't above the OH average in college prep or math, and Ohio isn't exactly the top state in the nation as far as either of those go.

So I would look at this with measured enthusiasm. I still think the district needs some work.

Thank you.

It's never a good idea to believe your own propaganda.

Lakewood High barely made the list even after assigning its poorer performing students to Lakewood City Academy. The overall level of performance isn't all that good. Of course performance seems to be bad throughout the country.

Lakewood High costs the people of Lakewood $275,000 per classroom per year. Why isn't that enough?

We can do better, we should demand better, we deserve better.

[Jim O'Bryan]

While it is nice to get national recognition, the actual numbers do not seem to be very heartening to me. They aren't above the OH average in college prep or math, and Ohio isn't exactly the top state in the nation as far as either of those go.

So I would look at this with measured enthusiasm. I still think the district needs some work.

Thank you.

It's never a good idea to believe your own propaganda.

Lakewood High barely made the list even after assigning its poorer performing students to Lakewood City Academy. The overall level of performance isn't all that good. Of course performance seems to be bad throughout the country.

Lakewood High costs the people of Lakewood $275,000 per classroom per year. Why isn't that enough?

We can do better, we should demand better, we deserve better.

Thealexa

I would agree with Bill on believing one's own kudos.

But the same would also be true of Bill's comments.

To my knowledge it is not poorer performing students at LCA, but "trouble" students for
lack of a better term. Moving disruptions to a second area to learn together, makes sense.

What I would say is Lakewood has done this with our schools and city in a very disruptive
pahse, where so many students sit in mods, not actual classrooms. That from year to year
they are not sure what school they will be sent to next.

Gifted classes moved from Grant to other schools. Students from Lincoln getting ready to
be sent to where ever during a rebuild that might never come. Lakewood High students
looking at losing half the school to rebuilding which means more mods, and long cold wet
walks just to go to class.

I would think the best way to handle all of this is to FINISH THE SCHOOLS. Then we have
a solid base to look at. Levy passed, and bond issue passed. THEN LET'S SEE WHAT
DEVELOPS and WHERE WE END UP. I mean I moved my office years ago and it took over
a year to get back to where we were with delivering services.

It is never smart to rest on your laurels.

.

[Peter Grossetti]

Money--in and of itself--doesn't solve anything. How the money is spent (and who spends it) does.

By that I mean: Now that the school levy has been passed, we need to turn our attention to deciding (again, by our votes) who gets to spend these dollars. I hope the candidates in the next round of school board elections provide detailed spending plans.

I have been intimating this since the first hint of a school levy hit the streets. This is a two-part process.

[Thealexa Becker]

Here's a thought: finish the high school.

I mean, it started when I was in my sophomore year, now I've graduated college, so this is just ridiculous, and quite honestly, pathetic.

And Jim, I know it can be a difficult time with the students moving, but again, especially at the high school, this "disruption" has been the norm for years now, so that really isn't a great excuse.

Speaking from my own recent experience, LHS needs some serious work on college prep and math.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Here's a thought: finish the high school.

I mean, it started when I was in my sophomore year, now I've graduated college, so this is just ridiculous, and quite honestly, pathetic.

And Jim, I know it can be a difficult time with the students moving, but again, especially at the high school, this "disruption" has been the norm for years now, so that really isn't a great excuse.

Speaking from my own recent experience, LHS needs some serious work on college prep and math.

Thealexa

Sorry to hear your move to college was tougher than expected. I hated math, now love it.

I was not making excuses. Pointless making excuses, and the imperfect grading from all
sources will continue no matter what. I am just saying, let's wait until the schools are
finished to take these "grades" seriously. At least some of the variables are out of the
way, and the classrooms are whole. As you point out, it is still a disruption.

I am not sure they can just finish the high school. I think the payoff is the finish of the
project laid out by the 50-year-committee, approved by the board. To be honest I have
thought from day one the project over reaching and oddly planned. It was spread over
too long a period with way too many variables in place for my liking. When the project was
started the country was living high on the economy left behind from Clinton days. Of
course that America, and Ohio and Lakewood were crushed by the drunk sailor spending of George Bush and his unneeded an unwarranted wars which not only destroyed the country but the world economy. Which makes passing any increase in funding extremely hard. Perhaps this is what they were banking on.

No matter, finish the schools then we shall see where the grades go.

At least it would be another project finished!

Thealexa, on another note, congratulations on Graduating, and your new job.

.

[Thealexa Becker]

Here's a thought: finish the high school.

I mean, it started when I was in my sophomore year, now I've graduated college, so this is just ridiculous, and quite honestly, pathetic.

And Jim, I know it can be a difficult time with the students moving, but again, especially at the high school, this "disruption" has been the norm for years now, so that really isn't a great excuse.

Speaking from my own recent experience, LHS needs some serious work on college prep and math.

Thealexa

Sorry to hear your move to college was tougher than expected. I hated math, now love it.

I was not making excuses. Pointless making excuses, and the imperfect grading from all
sources will continue no matter what. I am just saying, let's wait until the schools are
finished to take these "grades" seriously. At least some of the variables are out of the
way, and the classrooms are whole. As you point out, it is still a disruption.

I am not sure they can just finish the high school. I think the payoff is the finish of the
project laid out by the 50-year-committee, approved by the board. To be honest I have
thought from day one the project over reaching and oddly planned. It was spread over
to long a period with way to many variables in place for my liking. When the project was
started the country was living high on the economy left behind from Clinton days. Of
course that America, Ohio and Lakewood was crushed by drunk sailor spending of George
Bush and his unneeded an unwarranted wars which not just destroyed the country but
world economy. Which makes passing any increase in funding extremely hard. Perhaps this
is what they were banking on.

No matter finish the schools then we shall see where the grades go.

At least it would be another project finished!

Thealexa, on another note, congratulations on Graduating, and your new job.

.

Jim,

You are jumping to conclusions about my college experience, I never said it was bad or hard, I said LHS didn't really do anything to help it. My move to college was easy and I had no issues whatsoever. But I did all the preparation myself. And it was when I got to my competitive east coast college and talked to other students that I realized how much work LHS needs to do to be competitive out of state.

You can give all the reasons you want for the high school still not being finished but the fact of the matter is it should have been finished years ago, so this was a colossal mistake. And that really does not explain why it is still not competitive out of state with top schools when schools like Solon or Shaker Heights are.

BTW It's nice that you like math, I always liked math, which is why I majored in it. More people should but it scares them.

[Grace O'Malley]

Thealexa

I do need to remind you that a lot of your classmates at your "competitive east coast college" did NOT attend public schools. In fact, many attended very prestigious and expensive private schools, some from first grade on, where their parents paid lots of money to get them in position to compete with other well-prepared and fortunate students to grab those spots at those "east coast colleges" (and don't forget Stanford.)

In addition, as I found in college, many of those same lucky students had exposure to overseas travel, contact with interesting and accomplished people, some celebrities, and often had parents who both worked and were well-known in their fields.

You cannot compare the preparation of those students with the typical public school student from a middle or working class city.

You cannot "diss" Lakewood for this. In addition, if I compare MY college prep curriculum from a private Catholic girls school to that my children received at LHS, I'd give thumbs up to LHS. They had more AP classes and opportunities to participate in things like science fair than I did. They did well in college and are in successful careers. In fact, one has an Honors degree in Math and another is in a STEM field.

Is Lakewood comparable to Hawken or Laurel? Perhaps not, but those parents pay $25000 a year, in addition to their tax dollars, for that education.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Here's a thought: finish the high school.

I mean, it started when I was in my sophomore year, now I've graduated college, so this is just ridiculous, and quite honestly, pathetic.

And Jim, I know it can be a difficult time with the students moving, but again, especially at the high school, this "disruption" has been the norm for years now, so that really isn't a great excuse.

Speaking from my own recent experience, LHS needs some serious work on college prep and math.

Thealexa

Sorry to hear your move to college was tougher than expected. I hated math, now love it.

I was not making excuses. Pointless making excuses, and the imperfect grading from all
sources will continue no matter what. I am just saying, let's wait until the schools are
finished to take these "grades" seriously. At least some of the variables are out of the
way, and the classrooms are whole. As you point out, it is still a disruption.

I am not sure they can just finish the high school. I think the payoff is the finish of the
project laid out by the 50-year-committee, approved by the board. To be honest I have
thought from day one the project over reaching and oddly planned. It was spread over
to long a period with way to many variables in place for my liking. When the project was
started the country was living high on the economy left behind from Clinton days. Of
course that America, Ohio and Lakewood was crushed by drunk sailor spending of George
Bush and his unneeded an unwarranted wars which not just destroyed the country but
world economy. Which makes passing any increase in funding extremely hard. Perhaps
this is what they were banking on.

No matter finish the schools then we shall see where the grades go.

At least it would be another project finished!

Thealexa, on another note, congratulations on Graduating, and your new job.

.

Jim,

You are jumping to conclusions about my college experience, I never said it was bad or hard, I said LHS didn't really do anything to help it. My move to college was easy and I had no issues whatsoever. But I did all the preparation myself. And it was when I got to my competitive east coast college and talked to other students that I realized how much work LHS needs to do to be competitive out of state.

You can give all the reasons you want for the high school still not being finished but the fact of the matter is it should have been finished years ago, so this was a colossal mistake. And that really does not explain why it is still not competitive out of state with top schools when schools like Solon or Shaker Heights are.

BTW It's nice that you like math, I always liked math, which is why I majored in it. More people should but it scares them.

Thealexa

"I said LHS didn't really do anything to help it. "

Really? They didn't do anything? Nothing? Really?

I agree about not finishing the high school, but they are right on plan.

For me math was an acquired taste. While LHS was helping me get ready for I guess the
non-competitive university called Rochester Institute of Technology, my math teachers
loved grabbing me by my hair and shaking it until, it was falling out, or they banged my
head violently into the desk. So I was not a real fan of math in school, but one of my
math teachers is a good friend to this day. and was/is a mentor.

However I would have to say it not only prepared me for college, though I dropped out, it
really prepared me for life, and the hair seems to have grown back.

I am glad you were able to solider through it with NO HELP OR PREPARATION FRO LHS.

.

[Thealexa Becker]

Thealexa

"I said LHS didn't really do anything to help it. "

Really? They didn't do anything? Nothing? Really?

I agree about not finishing the high school, but they are right on plan.

For me math was an acquired taste. While LHS was helping me get ready for I guess the
non-competitive university called Rochester Institute of Technology, my math teachers
loved grabbing me by my hair and shaking it until, it was falling out, or they banged my
head violently into the desk. So I was not a real fan of math in school, but one of my
math teachers is a good friend to this day. and was/is a mentor.

However I would have to say it not only prepared me for college, though I dropped out, it
really prepared me for life, and the hair seems to have grown back.

I am glad you were able to solider through it with NO HELP OR PREPARATION FRO LHS.

.

Jim,

To be honest, you are not really in the position to tell me what I did or did not get out of LHS since 1) you don't know my educational background and 2) we did not attend similar colleges or study similar things. You're being melodramatic again because you don't like what I am saying, but I have been saying this since I was in high school so this isn't really a new sentiment. I didn't say I learned nothing, I'm saying college prep for more competitive out of state schools is lacking and that LHS needs work on college prep. You're attacking me as if I said I literally learned nothing about anything when I am talking about college prep for the most part.

LHS is not competitive for out of state schools beyond the tri-state area. Which means that while a small number of students might leave, it's not a significant portion of the graduating class. In my year I think it was 10 people about that left the tri-state area. So basically, LHS is a feeder school for Ohio colleges (some of which are very good), which isn't a bad thing, but let's not pretend that we are some nationally competitive school here.

I can promise you that the opinion that many on the east coast have of Ohio schools is awful. Ohio as a whole is not well regarded in terms of education, so back to my initial point, scoring at the average in Ohio is hardly anything to brag about.

Also, can the sarcasm, it doesn't contribute anything at all and again, you're not really in a position to assess what I did or didn't get out of high school, are you?

[Matthew Lee]

LHS is not competitive for out of state schools beyond the tri-state area.

Do you have numbers to back this up? Basically, we would need the number of applicants accepted in out of state schools divided by the number who applied to out of state schools and then compare that to....um....exactly what? Are we not competitive compared to other schools in Cuyahoga County? In Ohio? In the Midwest? In the US?

This seems more like an opinion than a fact. But if it is a fact, I will gladly accept it. Just show the numbers.

I can promise you that the opinion that many on the east coast have of Ohio schools is awful.

Kind of like this opinion. So now we need to worry about what the east coast thinks of Ohio schools? What about what Seattle thinks? Or Orlando?

Honestly, did you really survey everyone on the east coast to see what they think of Ohio schools? And, really, does it matter? It's who you are, not where you came from that matters.

[Thealexa Becker]

LHS is not competitive for out of state schools beyond the tri-state area.

Do you have numbers to back this up? Basically, we would need the number of applicants accepted in out of state schools divided by the number who applied to out of state schools and then compare that to....um....exactly what? Are we not competitive compared to other schools in Cuyahoga County? In Ohio? In the Midwest? In the US?

This seems more like an opinion than a fact. But if it is a fact, I will gladly accept it. Just show the numbers.

I can promise you that the opinion that many on the east coast have of Ohio schools is awful.

Kind of like this opinion. So now we need to worry about what the east coast thinks of Ohio schools? What about what Seattle thinks? Or Orlando?

Honestly, did you really survey everyone on the east coast to see what they think of Ohio schools? And, really, does it matter? It's who you are, not where you came from that matters.

You can compare where students from LHS went to where students from Shaker and Solon went or even Rocky River. But you're right, this is an opinion of mine, I'm not going to pretend it isn't, but I don't think you can easily refute that almost all graduates stay in state (or tri-state) making LHS a feeder for Ohio schools. But if that's the goal, then mission accomplished, but again, not competitive nationally.

However, all that aside, you are still failing to address my point that we need work on college prep and college application processes. The system teaches too much to the middle, which has been a criticism for years.

So you can meander on about how it's just my opinion or whatever and continue the mental gymnastics needed to convince yourself LHS is the best ever, but that's honestly just willful ignorance. I'm not saying it's a bad school, I'm saying it needs work on certain areas. It earned "C+" rating overall last year. Hardly stellar.

I guess the point of this debate is that you need to decide what you imagine LHS to be in a perfect world. A local school system good at sending kids to Ohio schools so they come back to Cleveland and work, or a nationally ranked school system that sends kids to top programs across the country.

If your goal is the first one, congrats, you win, I guess, since you're at the Ohio average. But if it's the second one, you're not even close.

And for the record, people definitely care about where you come from, ESPECIALLY on the east coast. I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but when I started to get people apologizing to me for coming from Ohio, I think that's a pretty low opinion of the area. I had people at my NYC internship congratulating me for getting out of Cleveland. No joke. So yeah, people care. Your background matters a lot.

[Grace O'Malley]

And for the record, people definitely care about where you come from, ESPECIALLY on the east coast.

Your background matters a lot.

If you bought into that way of thinking then your selective east coast school did not do you a bit of good. And perhaps to THEM it DOES matter, in which case, a girl from a working class public high school in (GASP) OHIO is definitely at a disadvantage no matter how smart she thinks she is.

[Michael Deneen]

A couple of things:

*I've been on the Northwestern U Admissions Council for many years. We are just as selective as most East Coast schools. NU has accepted many public school Ohio kids over the years, especially from Shaker and CH/UH. FWIW, there is at least one LHS alum on campus in Evanston right now, which is pretty good.

*What the heck is "The Tri-State area"? That term usually applies to specific places like Cincinnati or NYC. (Not to be confused with the "Tri-City" area of "America 2-Night")

[Thealexa Becker]

And for the record, people definitely care about where you come from, ESPECIALLY on the east coast.

Your background matters a lot.

If you bought into that way of thinking then your selective east coast school did not do you a bit of good. And perhaps to THEM it DOES matter, in which case, a girl from a working class public high school in (GASP) OHIO is definitely at a disadvantage no matter how smart she thinks she is.

Just because you want the world to work a certain way, where you are judged based on your merit alone, doesn't mean it does work that way. Reality is a hard lesson to learn and one of the best things that happened to me was the realization that the world is judgmental for all sorts of reasons.

Your point is really irrelevant.

Tri-State means Ohio, Michigan, Penn.

But what I am continually baffled by is why no one on this Deck likes hearing legitimate criticism. I didn't say LHS was a bad school, I said it needs work, and yet all anyone hears is that I criticized the school system. It's not like I slapped the Pope people.

If you really cared about improving the school you would listen to the dissenters among you more than your self-congratulatory friends. If you don't like it after you have heard them out, then fine, you get what you paid for, but to just shoot down someone who disagrees with you is unproductive.

My point, to get back on topic, remains that LHS is a good school for nurturing students for professional and technical programs. I think it does a fine job with that. But as for preparation for the "big bad" schools on the east and west coast, as well as a few in between, it needs work. So I just take issue with claiming LHS serves all its students equally well, when in the case of college prep, it is lacking in some key areas.

[Gary Rice]

I think that I might be able to present another perspective here.

Schools can always improve. The problem would be "how" and on that note, there is, unfortunately, little agreement.

As a retired educator, having more than 30 years of classroom experience, I can tell you that there's historically been a huge disagreement in our country as to what constitutes a "good" education. Does education, for example, involve more inquiry, or indoctrination? Should education always cater to the "cream of the crop", or strive to serve all?

In the old days, and to a great extent still here in the Midwest, we continue to insist in our public schools that ALL STUDENTS be given the opportunity to grasp the brass ring. Here, we still tend to combine individual initiative with teamwork skills in order to develop well-rounded individuals who can have hope for their futures. We want all students to be able to maximize their potentials, and many do. Lakewood High School, for example, has successfully schooled many national leaders over the years in many fields.

Regarding the matter of relative high school experiences, I will say this: It would be very difficult for anyone to objectively compare their own high school experiences with those of others, simply because an individual would normally have no personal basis for comparisons.

Having graduated from, and having taught at Lakewood High School, as well as having taught at a number of other public and private schools over the course of many years, I would feel quite comfortable with stating that the quality of education being offered there is excellent.

I would in conclusion, simply suggest that a Lakewood High School learning experience, while being very well-balanced socially, educationally, and philosophically, would still depend very much on the attitude and motivation of the recipient, and that is very much as it should be.

You get out of life, or school, for that matter, (ANY school!) what you put into it.

Period.