Coming Fast And Furious

[Jim O'Bryan]

Sorry, I was under the impression this thread was about the garage/yard sale legislation, which is what my responses have only concentrated on, I dont know how the parks got dragged into this as well? I was trying to leave that behind as we aren't going to agree on that.

Chris

Thread drift is a nightmare on forums like this, and I am one of the worst offenders I am
sure. While it makes sense to concentrate on some issues, the real fact is none of this
happens in a vacuum or petri dish, so often one topics bleeds into another, of similar
topics or issues.

What was going on in my thread and if you look at the topic, "Coming Fast and Furious" is
that rules and restrictions against tax paying, law abiding citizens is coming fast and
furious, and I maintain it is because of a mindset at City Hall. That mindeset is Commercial
Economic Development is more important the residential development. Hence, we have
seen hoops torn down with an original promise to rebuild, and now residents having to
pay to replace what was "vandalized" by the city and the schools. We have seen
neighborhood after neighborhood invaded by commercial development that really has no
place in residential Lakewood, and it is all development that would NEVER be allowed near
their neighborhoods. We are seeing the closing of blue ribbons schools for strip malls,
we are seeing the drastic cutting of hours we can legally assemble in PUBLIC PARKS,
for what? More commercial development is what many are saying. Now we are getting
limited in when and how we can have yard sales. When there is already a perfectly sane
law on the books for garage sales.

At the same time, the city gives "approved" businesses carte blanche to have their way
with us, until we arrive at where we are now. Residents are in an abusive relationship with
City Hall, and like so many battered spouses, most of Lakewood is afraid to speak up,
which only empowers the abuser, hence...

Coming Fast and Furious.

City Hall, and city services are their for the residents, not to work against the residents.

I want to remind you that I was applauding Mayor Summers on his seriousness of telling
Lakewoodites at State of the City, things are tough, we have to get serious, and buckle
down, we are broke, and need money for sewers ($65 million). Instead I am seeing
ridiculous laws, money spent on pink faux bricks, massive expensive streets signs that
make little or no sense, when every other sign in Lakewood is green, and Lakewood had
many, many meetings on the color of signs in Downtown, and that committee chose red,
which made no sense either. Are they busy with serious work, or rearranging the deck
chairs on the Titanic?

As always thanks for bringing your opinion and facts to the discussion.

PS - Why aren't you and Thealexa holding City Hall to the same standards you expect from
me? Where are their facts? Their reasoning? Where is it that the current laws have failed
so badly we now need new laws? You are at the meetings, what was Kevin Butler's
reasoning for the draconian laws against residents?

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[Thealexa Becker]

PS - Why aren't you and Thealexa holding City Hall to the same standards you expect from
me? Where are their facts? Their reasoning? Where is it that the current laws have failed
so badly we now need new laws? You are at the meetings, what was Kevin Butler's
reasoning for the draconian laws against residents?

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Jim,

I do hold everyone to the same standards, but you happen to be the one on this forum. Were City Council to be as actively engaged on this thread as you, I would be asking them the same things.

Unfortunately, the difficulty with this medium of communication is that it does not always allow for a balanced discussion.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,

I do hold everyone to the same standards, but you happen to be the one on this forum. Were City Council to be as actively engaged on this thread as you, I would be asking them the same things.

Unfortunately, the difficulty with this medium of communication is that it does not always allow for a balanced discussion.

Thealexa

You are absolutely correct in theory, but in actual practice, this is not always true. It is more
a matter of who can put up and who cannot. And the proof is in the actions, and lack of.

Every member of council with the exception of one, I believe have active accounts and
can be seen signed in through out the week. All read the deck and can quote it and what
is wrong with it at nearly any point in the day. Look how fast, Kevin Butler, David
Anderson, Shawn Juris, and even Monique Smith and Brian Powers respond to posts is
amazing. But what we have found is Councilman Juris only comes in to defend some
abstract thought, and then make silly demands of me, which I always yield to, and he
NEVER follows through on, strutting like some strange peacock and declaring "Religious
breaks" until the next time he has to pass of some BS about studies that never happened.

They have chosen not to engage in this very open 100% equal forum where everyone uses
real names. What this would indicate is one, they are not interested in wasting time trying
to explain their stances to tax payers in the thousands(unique IP addresses a month)
rather making people get dressed put their lives on hold and going to a council meeting
where they can talk for 10 minutes before getting cut-off. Which is their right. This is not
for everyone that is for sure.

I also believe they try to move as much past residents as humanly possible, why else would
an "open and transparent" government as Chris put it, make two of the most important
meetings, schools and city hall on the same night? Even after breaks? Why are so many
meetings scheduled early, some as early as 5pm or 6 pm, which while anyone using
the parks would be looking for some place to go but many others are still coming home
from work, and eating dinner with their families. Westlake puts everything online without
edit, damn near 24/7/365. NO EDITS, you have not seen a Lakewood public meeting
without edits online I believe.

It doesn't really matter, we know what they are thinking, what was always more important
to the founders of the Observer was giving EVERYONE ONE EQUAL SEAT AT A
SUSTAINABLE TABLE, without edits. Let appointed council people call a past businessman
man of the year and resident of Lakewood "a Jerk." If that is how a public official wants to
use his seat his free sopabox for, it is more the measure of the man, the the failure
of the table, or the active participants.

Now for some of our elected officials, it seems far more important to like Bobby wanting a
cup of coffee in the morning on facebook, on as many of 4 of their pages, than actually
engage residents. But that is America, and I will defend their right to do that! The sanity I
can't address.

It would seem, that many of our current politicians nationwide ride the same excuse for not doing what they promised to do on their way in, basically fight for the voters. It usually goes
something like, "Well it is far more important that I get reelected than to make a mistake
that alienates voters now."

"Where wise actions are the fruit of life, wise discourse is the pollination." - Bryant H. McGill

"Sunshine is the best disinfectant." - Justice Louis D. Brandeis


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[Christopher Bindel]

Jim you are exhausting.....

There is so much I would like to say but I just do not have the time. I have spent more time on here then I probably should have this week, neglecting my work to do so, and I'm sure to my wifes chagrin as well.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason some officials dont come on here is because you are so exhausting and over demanding of them, and most of them, unlike myself, have children in addition that they need to spend time with. I know you dont have children, and the observer is your job so it might be hard to understand this, but this is not everyones life, it is a hobby, an interest, that many are passionate about, which is good. But we all do not have the time you do to send on here.

Let the tirade begin.....

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim you are exhausting.....

There is so much I would like to say but I just do not have the time. I have spent more time on here then I probably should have this week, neglecting my work to do so, and I'm sure to my wifes chagrin as well.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason some officials dont come on here is because you are so exhausting and over demanding of them, and most of them, unlike myself, have children in addition that they need to spend time with. I know you dont have children, and the observer is your job so it might be hard to understand this, but this is not everyones life, it is a hobby, an interest, that many are passionate about, which is good. But we all do not have the time you do to send on here.

Let the tirade begin.....

Chris

No tirade, go back and look at all of the time wasted here. Most of it was trying to correct
me on things we found out later I had the facts for. With the single exception being the
"patio" at QSL.

The Observer is not my "job," Chris again you are wrong. My job is AGS Design, AGS
Printwear, AGS Software, and the various thing I do. The Observer is how I spend some
of my spare time. It is important to me for many reasons, most importantly I live here
own property here, and have businesses here. I get no paycheck from the Lakewood
Observer. None, neither does my wife. The entire project was underwritten not to make
me money, but to give you a place to talk, that is sustainable. How could I ask any one
else to donate time, effort and stories and not be willing to donate mine? This is not like
the other Corporate Community Sites, I get paid even less than you. I would have it no
other way. To donate for a corporation to get rich, work of fools. To work with fellow
residents on a running narrative for Lakewood, priceless. You do not find me expounding
my stories on any other site, I do not think I am so needed in any discussion that I have
to post to 10 sites with my name or faux name. I care about Lakewood, and the focus that
was set out by this project ten years ago, by people far smarter than I.

While I am sure you do not see yourself apologizing for Council yet again because they are
busy or hate being dragged down by discussion. I know why each and every member of council posts here and does not. Contrary to popular belief, I talk to council members and
have never asked them to hold back on telling me what I am doing wrong, and I would
hope they want the same from me.

I appreciate the time you spend here and everyone for that matter.

So it is OK for Councilman Juris to come in and call me a Jerk, say "I am taking off the
Deck for Lent," Demand my companies' books (privately owned), in response for me
asking where tax dollars were spent, but not tell the truth about traffic studies and taking
away our right to lawfully assemble.

That is the true measure of a civic leader, Ehhhhhhhhh?


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[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim you are exhausting.....

There is so much I would like to say but I just do not have the time. I have spent more time on here then I probably should have this week, neglecting my work to do so, and I'm sure to my wifes chagrin as well.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason some officials dont come on here is because you are so exhausting and over demanding of them, and most of them, unlike myself, have children in addition that they need to spend time with. I know you dont have children, and the observer is your job so it might be hard to understand this, but this is not everyones life, it is a hobby, an interest, that many are passionate about, which is good. But we all do not have the time you do to send on here.

Let the tirade begin.....

"Thank you to the publishers of the Observer and the readers of this forum for giving me a place to share my opinion on this. Unfortunately, I haven't had the same opportunity at city hall." - Councilwoman-At-Large Monique Smith


Chris

No tirade, go back and look at all of the time wasted here. Most of it was trying to correct
me on things we found out later I had the facts for. With the single exception being the
"patio" at QSL.

The Observer is not my "job," Chris again you are wrong. My job is AGS Design, AGS
Printwear, AGS Software, and the various thing I do. The Observer is how I spend some
of my spare time. It is important to me for many reasons, most importantly I live here
own property here, and have businesses here. I get no paycheck from the Lakewood
Observer. None, neither does my wife. The entire project was underwritten not to make
me money, but to give you a place to talk, that is sustainable. How could I ask any one
else to donate time, effort and stories and not be willing to donate mine? This is not like
the other Corporate Community Sites, I get paid even less than you. I would have it no
other way. To donate for a corporation to get rich, work of fools. To work with fellow
residents on a running narrative for Lakewood, priceless. You do not find me expounding
my stories on any other site, I do not think I am so needed in any discussion that I have
to post to 10 sites with my name or faux name. I care about Lakewood, and the focus that
was set out by this project ten years ago, by people far smarter than I.

While I am sure you do not see yourself apologizing for Council yet again because they are
busy or hate being dragged down by discussions with voters*. I know why each and every
member of council posts here and does not. Contrary to popular belief, I talk to council
members and have never asked them to hold back on telling me what I am doing wrong,
and I would hope they want the same from me.

I appreciate the time you spend here and everyone for that matter.

So it is OK for Councilman Juris to come in and call me a Jerk, say "I am taking off the
Deck for Lent," Demand my companies' books (privately owned), in response for me
asking where tax dollars were spent, but not tell the truth about traffic studies and taking
away our right to lawfully assemble.

That is the true measure of a civic leader, Ehhhhhhhhh?

* Show me one official with the possible exception of Juris is a silly ass tantrum, that
hasn't been shown 100% respect by anyone, with the possible exception of Sharon on
wild occasions? None? Show me the one example of an elected official being dragged down
into a conversation with the exception of Councilman Juris? None Past elected officials like
Mayor FitzGerald and Mayor George actually used the Deck to test ideas before jumping
in like taxes, and garbage pick up to name but a few. Just another fallacy and excuse. One
they have never told me.

.

[J Hrlec]

Hmmm... is the Observer the official website of Lakewood City Hall?

Maybe your right Jim, we are in trouble.

[Christopher Bindel]

Hmmm... is the Observer the official website of Lakewood City Hall?

Maybe your right Jim, we are in trouble.

HAHA Thank you Mr. Hrlec, you are always great for a laugh and great perspective.

[Shawn Juris]

Heaven forbid, an ordinance is reviewed and possibly revised. Certainly wouldn't want that to happen.

Jim, would it make you feel better if I sat in a dunk tank for charity? You can get it out of your system once and for all. Then again if your throw is as far off target as all of your manufactured controversy in Lakewood over the past few years, I'll probably go home dry.

[Corey Rossen]

Heaven forbid, an ordinance is reviewed and possibly revised. Certainly wouldn't want that to happen.

Jim, would it make you feel better if I sat in a dunk tank for charity? You can get it out of your system once and for all. Then again if your throw is as far off target as all of your manufactured controversy in Lakewood over the past few years, I'll probably go home dry.

Sunday, September 30th at Fitness Fits Everyone! (formerly Recess ROCKS!) presented by Jordan's Family Foundation.

Sounds good to me.
Corey

[Jim O'Bryan]

Corey

Nope, do not need you in one, don;t need Shawn in one either.

But thanks Shawn for proving my point about you and council.

J Hrelc

Never said we were the tool for city hall that is other sites, we offer all sides here, if they are willing to put up.

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[J Hrlec]

J Hrlec
Never said we were the tool for city hall that is other sites, we offer all sides here, if they are willing to put up.

Phew!

Thanks for letting me know. I think the LO is great for event updates and general news, but that would be very scary if the city government was gauging things based upon the Deck.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Jim O'Bryan]

J Hrlec
Never said we were the tool for city hall that is other sites, we offer all sides here, if they are willing to put up.

Phew!

Thanks for letting me know. I think the LO is great for event updates and general news, but that would be very scary if the city government was gauging things based upon the Deck.

Thanks for the clarification.

J Hrlec,

The paper was NEVER a paper for City Hall, one of the reasons the entire project was started is that the facts
that had been presented PRO-WestEnd were found to be mostly lies, coming out of city hall. What we had found
then and find true to today is that residents, and their perceptions are often as important if not more so than
the "facts" coming from anyone group, including the Observer.

At a recent panel discussion with 6th graders while some media people argue there is no such thing as truth,
Observers, and Great Lakes Courier people argued, there are facts but even the facts do not matter unless you
can apply them with critical thought to their world, their lives and their experiences.

FWIW


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[J Hrlec]

The paper was NEVER a paper for City Hall

That's good, thanks for further clarification.

...perceptions are often as important if not more so than
the "facts" coming from anyone group, including the Observer.

Yes, like the Deck, the majority is perception mixed with tidbits of "fact". This makes sense.

At a recent panel discussion with 6th graders while some media people argue there is no such thing as truth, Observers, and Great Lakes Courier people argued...

Well if there's one thing Observer's are good at it's arguing.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Well if there's one thing Observer's are good at it's arguing.

J Hrlec

Civic discourse is good, and the multidimensional aspects of the Observer were put in place for a number of
reasons. What does a community do, when it's leaders lie? I am not talking of getting some facts wrong, but
purposely putting out erroneous to benefit just a few people?

This was back before "hyper local news" was branded. All of the other websites around allowed for faux names,
and that is absolutely worthless for looking for verifiable truths. Yet as often is the case where there is smoke
there is fire. I put the Lakewood Observer coverage of the Phase III Committee to be one of the best series of
truths ever put out there in this city.

This project was not put together by idiots or fools, it was put together by civic leaders with much background
across the boards that had grown tired of the shenanigans, and needed another assessment tool. Please note
I did not say the only or last assessment tool. This is why I often point out the word "news" never appears in
our mission statement.

It is our mission, and the way this works that I believe allows us to start such programs with such success, I
cannot think of another group in the city that has worked with as many volunteers, and correctly channeled
their dreams desires and abilities in things that years later still reverberate within this city. Everyone of them
very positive, very brand building, very sustainable without any tax dollars.

Nope, we aren't news but I would like to think we have helped move the bar for civic Civic Discourse up.

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