The Observation Deck

This is great news for Lakewood! Quaker Steak and Lube will add another healthy outlet to the Detroit Avenue Chow Line. In all seriousness, with QSL in place across the street from the library, I can now salivate over endless teriyaki chicken wings in the Grand Reading Room. If only they would add a crosswalk in front of the library for easy access to QSL.

Nadhal Eadeh wrote:This is great news for Lakewood! Quaker Steak and Lube will add another healthy outlet to the Detroit Avenue Chow Line. In all seriousness, with QSL in place across the street from the library, I can now salivate over endless teriyaki chicken wings in the Grand Reading Room. If only they would add a crosswalk in front of the library for easy access to QSL.

Yes, I can't wait to try some of their chow. Also, just for those not in-the-know...here are the crosswalks you can use to easily get to the Drug Mart Plaza... it may be 50 feet farther than the one which was removed, but that's a good thing if you're hitting the "Chow Line"

Question, When Lakewood was first developing its commercial districts was there a great "rigid" civic plan as some currently call for? I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of one. Things developed organically as demand and the times changed. Just as we have community busy bodies droning on about deep packeted national chains and to many hamburgers today. I'm sure there was same type of individuals going on about taking down the houses along Detroit, "do we really need another butcher, cleaner or cobbler?"

Bill

Bill Trentel wrote:Question, When Lakewood was first developing its commercial districts was there a great "rigid" civic plan as some currently call for? I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of one. Things developed organically as demand and the times changed. Just as we have community busy bodies droning on about deep packeted national chains and to many hamburgers today. I'm sure there was same type of individuals going on about taking down the houses along Detroit, "do we really need another butcher, cleaner or cobbler?"

Bill

Bill

The conversation has come up many times in the 20 years since the last plan. There was often conversations about
districts, but very little ever came of it. If I remember correctly there once was a sign that designated West of
Bonnieview, "The Entertainment District." Where all of the arts entertainment stuff was going.

Ironically it seems that the only things that actually work and flourish are the things the city had nothing to do with.
Things that came along and grew organically. Not a slam on 100 years of leadership, just organics and how businesses
flourish, survive, grow and become sustainable.

One reason why the city should be working on the ground (clean/safe) so that it is healthy and ripe for the next thing.

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Jim O'Bryan wrote:Bill

The conversation has come up many times in the 20 years since the last plan. There was often conversations about
districts, but very little ever came of it. If I remember correctly there once was a sign that designated West of
Bonnieview, "The Entertainment District." Where all of the arts entertainment stuff was going.

Ironically it seems that the only things that actually work and flourish are the things the city had nothing to do with.
Things that came along and grew organically. Not a slam on 100 years of leadership, just organics and how businesses
flourish, survive, grow and become sustainable.

One reason why the city should be working on the ground (clean/safe) so that it is healthy and ripe for the next thing.

.
.

Mr. O'Bryan,
Yes, organic, stop trying to put Lakewood in a box.
The zoning code does address land use and tries to guide use and redevelopment to zones that where projected to best serve those uses in a general sense. Putting signs on a poles, "HamburgerS" "Greedy chainS" is marketing. The problem with rigidly defined allowable uses is that the creativity and ability to adapt the the market ends there. If indoor pet playgrounds with genetically modified food super markets are the next big thing then there's no room for that.
The only way Lakewood or the entire U.S. society is going to become sustainable again is by reviving the a thriving middle-class.

Bill

Bill Trentel wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Bill

The conversation has come up many times in the 20 years since the last plan. There was often conversations about
districts, but very little ever came of it. If I remember correctly there once was a sign that designated West of
Bonnieview, "The Entertainment District." Where all of the arts entertainment stuff was going.

Ironically it seems that the only things that actually work and flourish are the things the city had nothing to do with.
Things that came along and grew organically. Not a slam on 100 years of leadership, just organics and how businesses
flourish, survive, grow and become sustainable.

One reason why the city should be working on the ground (clean/safe) so that it is healthy and ripe for the next thing.

.
.

Mr. O'Bryan,
Yes, organic, stop trying to put Lakewood in a box.
The zoning code does address land use and tries to guide use and redevelopment to zones that where projected to best serve those uses in a general sense. Putting signs on a poles, "HamburgerS" "Greedy chainS" is marketing. The problem with rigidly defined allowable uses is that the creativity and ability to adapt the the market ends there. If indoor pet playgrounds with genetically modified food super markets are the next big thing then there's no room for that.
The only way Lakewood or the entire U.S. society is going to become sustainable again is by reviving the a thriving middle-class.

Bill

Bill

I am sorry I have read this a couple times and do not understand the comment. Can you clarify?

I will say that the things I am getting from this is something against my use of organic? Which I meant as locally grown
businesses, as opposed to chains, or faux "entertainment areas."

Also if I am reading you correctly you have made an interesting point. The only reason we have to worry about the next
cool thing, is when we chase cool, especially in the commercial world. By the time Lakewood gets or attracts the next
cool thing is is almost certainly no longer cool. The nightmare of mall based cities. Where if a city is already a bedroom
community, and sticks to delivering clean safe affordable housing, we know from history that many things come and go,
but affordable clean safe housing is always in short supply and in demand. So I would ask, why chase cool business,
when we get nearly the same cut if it is in Lakewood or out. If they are food service jobs, they are not high tax bearing
jobs that city can bank on.

Is this what you were getting at?


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Legendary former Univeisty of Texas football coach Darrell Royal was fond of saying "Dance with who brung ya!" For those of you who aren't football junkies, that means go with the players and plays that result in wins.

Fads, vagary, being in vogue and chasing "the next big thing" won't serve Lakewood well ... whether it's in dining, retail, commercial development, whatever. This is a middle-class, bedroom community (with fringe pockets of wealth and poverty.) We don't need to "attract' anything; we just need to connect the dots which already exist.

Peter Grossetti wrote:This is a middle-class, bedroom community (with fringe pockets of wealth and poverty.) We don't need to "attract' anything; we just need to connect the dots which already exist.

Soooo.....Lakewood does not need to attract anything

What are "the dots"

Peter Grossetti wrote:Fads, vagary, being in vogue and chasing "the next big thing" won't serve Lakewood well
... whether it's in dining, retail, commercial development, whatever.

... or backyard hens.

Mr. O'Bryan you proclaim for understanding of organic development but yet you continually demand that we create a grand plan (YOUR box) to guide the types of business and citizens making or looking to call Lakewood home. I could care less if a business is "cool" if they provides a service that is in demand, pay some taxes, play fair and are little bit active in the community then that's cool. Businesses come and go, and their services constantly evolve. Why should we, a few talkative citizens try to control the market? If you want to put signs up proclaiming this district or that fine but that is marketing, I seem to remember you having several posts complaining about sign clutter.

What sustains and drives a strong business and resident community, is the middle class. And there lies many of Lakewood's and our nations problems. The last 30 yrs. have been a continual march towards the destruction of the middle class. We where strongest when the middle class wage earner could earn enough to pay their bills, save a little and help push the next generation up a rung or two. Today a large majority of the middle class is living pay check to pay check and that means things a community counts on don't get done, the paint, side walks, rehabs... Do I have a solution, no.

It's not like the Lakewood home owner with peeling paint is choosing to spent that money on his new car elevator at his west coast beach house instead of here in Lakewood.

Bill

Bill Trentel wrote:Mr. O'Bryan you proclaim for understanding of organic development but yet you continually demand that we create a grand plan (YOUR box) to guide the types of business and citizens making or looking to call Lakewood home. I could care less if a business is "cool" if they provides a service that is in demand, pay some taxes, play fair and are little bit active in the community then that's cool. Businesses come and go, and their services constantly evolve. Why should we, a few talkative citizens try to control the market? If you want to put signs up proclaiming this district or that fine but that is marketing, I seem to remember you having several posts complaining about sign clutter.

What sustains and drives a strong business and resident community, is the middle class. And there lies many of Lakewood's and our nations problems. The last 30 yrs. have been a continual march towards the destruction of the middle class. We where strongest when the middle class wage earner could earn enough to pay their bills, save a little and help push the next generation up a rung or two. Today a large majority of the middle class is living pay check to pay check and that means things a community counts on don't get done, the paint, side walks, rehabs... Do I have a solution, no.

It's not like the Lakewood home owner with peeling paint is choosing to spent that money on his new car elevator at his west coast beach house instead of here in Lakewood.

Bill

Bill good valid points, but you are misunderstanding me, which is very common, I am terrible at dialog.

My "plan" comment usually follows are we looking to grow commercial, and if so there is a simple equation for how much
commercial is needed to replace residents and stay solvent. Or are we going to continue what we are good at, providing
housing to many? I have to believe by the shotgun approach of talking housing, while building commercial into
neighborhoods, would underline a lack of plans for Lakewood's future.

As we have learned from past plans, rarely are they a road map to the future, but can serve as a guide to people staying
or leaving, businesses coming or going, and the state of the city.

As for the peeling paint, this city had many programs for decades to help with that. But none we "advertised" by the city.
So are we for saving homes, or are we just talking about it? Likewise some recent changes at the county will see more
and more homes come up for sheriff auctions and worse. What is the message, we want you to stay, or we want you to
go? simple things like this helps everyone.

Thanks for taking the time.

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Bill Trentel wrote:Mr. O'Bryan you proclaim for understanding of organic development but yet you continually demand that we create a grand plan (YOUR box) to guide the types of business and citizens making or looking to call Lakewood home. I could care less if a business is "cool" if they provides a service that is in demand, pay some taxes, play fair and are little bit active in the community then that's cool. Businesses come and go, and their services constantly evolve. Why should we, a few talkative citizens try to control the market?

Additionally, the market, while it is coming back, is still not that good. So it is a fallacy to say that there is a lot of development going on, especially in this region, and we should be able to pick and choose and call the shots because there are so many options out there. That is simply not true.

I seem to remember many past comments on this very site about how 'unfriendly' Lakewood is to businesses and yet, when accomodations are made, people change their minds and want to chase businesses out.... not even suggesting a conversation of 'terms' of being in Lakewood, but people just straight up saying "we don't want XYZ here at all and the city caved and needs to tell them "no, get out."

These are just my observations.