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Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:27 am
by Peter Grossetti
Just tossing this out there ... are the hours that our parks are open/closed really worthy of a piece of legisation?!? (Are the hours that City Hall is open/closed dictated by an ordinance?)
I frankly trust the fine professionals in the Division of Parks and Public Property (working in conjunction Public Works, Police, et al) to dutifuly set the hours of operations for the facilities/properties within their jurisidiction.
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:29 pm
by Scott Meeson
Peter Grossetti wrote:Just tossing this out there ... are the hours that our parks are open/closed really worthy of a piece of legisation?!? (Are the hours that City Hall is open/closed dictated by an ordinance?)
I frankly trust the fine professionals in the Division of Parks and Public Property (working in conjunction Public Works, Police, et al) to dutifuly set the hours of operations for the facilities/properties within their jurisidiction.
Hello Peter,
I would imagine that our parks legislation(LAW) has penalties associated with violation of the ordinance.
It would be interesting to know how much is graffiti/vandalism costing ($$$) our city? How many man hours (past 12 months) has public works diverted to abate the finished product of vandals?
Scott Meeson
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:32 pm
by Peter Grossetti
Scott - is your assertion that this legislation is some sort of "money grab?"
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:48 pm
by Scott Meeson
Peter Grossetti wrote:Scott - is your assertion that this legislation is some sort of "money grab?"
Absolutely not!
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:22 pm
by Peter Grossetti
Scott - did you forget the little winky guy
??
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:34 pm
by Scott Meeson
Peter Grossetti wrote:Scott - did you forget the little winky guy
??
What little winky guy?
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:45 pm
by Shawn Juris
Meg,
To your question if surrendering is the best that we can do? It didn't come up in any way to be a surrender. The ordinance was brought to council by the Public Works Director as a recommendation to solve a problem, or more specifically curtail. Points were made and discussed and there was not a strong argument for why 11pm made more sense than an hour after sunset for these two locations.
Scott,
You are absolutely correct. The penalty aspect is attached to the ordinance which defines the hours that the park is closed. Time element is not a new thing to legislation and neither is finding an agreed up time to close a park.
Peter,
Parks have hours. If you're in a building unauthorized after it's closed, I'd assume it would be breaking and entering. If you're hanging out an any property after their closed without purpose I'd guess trespassing would be considered. But again, as I said in the meeting Monday, I trust the Police to use their discretion on how these issues would be handled.
Hope to see all of you next time there is an issue that you are concerned with. Certainly a much different perspective to see hear the discussion firsthand than to trust a very shaky recap here.
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:05 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
Shawn Juris wrote:Meg,
To your question if surrendering is the best that we can do? It didn't come up in any way to be a surrender. The ordinance was brought to council by the Public Works Director as a recommendation to solve a problem, or more specifically curtail. Points were made and discussed and there was not a strong argument for why 11pm made more sense than an hour after sunset for these two locations.
Scott,
You are absolutely correct. The penalty aspect is attached to the ordinance which defines the hours that the park is closed. Time element is not a new thing to legislation and neither is finding an agreed up time to close a park.
Peter,
Parks have hours. If you're in a building unauthorized after it's closed, I'd assume it would be breaking and entering. If you're hanging out an any property after their closed without purpose I'd guess trespassing would be considered. But again, as I said in the meeting Monday, I trust the Police to use their discretion on how these issues would be handled.
Hope to see all of you next time there is an issue that you are concerned with. Certainly a much different perspective to see hear the discussion firsthand than to trust a very shaky recap here.
Shawn
At some point the city must stop sweeping their inabilities to manage under the rug.
Tearing down homes, and closing parks, are creating massive lumps in Lakewood's rug.
I am willing to bet, that if Joe and I spent 5 minutes together I could find him some wastes
in his time and that of his crew that would enable them to do equal battle to the graffiti
artist at Kauffman Park. Ask him, I bet this week he agrees with me.
Shaky? I think you have proven, every point I was making. While you cannot think of a
single good thing that goes on in a park after dusk, I can come up with hundreds. But
then I have not given up on the residents of this city, nor do I feel burger places are better
than the people who live here. Perhaps that is why we differ.
My question to council is, after Joe Beno spoke of the problem, how many other ideas were
looked at and floated before the decision to close 2/3rds of Lakewood's "lit parks" was
hurried through council?
Peter/Scott
Let's be honest here, the only reason for these curfews is to give police, a reason to stop
a person in the park after hours. Which can be accomplished in so many other ways that
are very positive statements by a city towards its parks and residents. Of course, that
would mean council would have to look at what other cities do, and think out of the box
ie work.
Example, Bay Village has a resident's only rule. So that law enforcement, can stop and ask
for a picture id when they want. This sends out a positive message "Like our parks, move
here." Far more productive then, we cannot battle 10 year olds with sharpie, so now all of
you must stay out.
.
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:34 pm
by Christina McCallum
If the concern is kids in the parks after dark causing problems, I was under the impression a graduated curfew exists for kids that's dependent on age. Has this changed and I didn't hear about it?
Christina McCallum
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:24 pm
by kate e parker
this whole thread is on the cusp of ridiculous.
as a lifelong resident of lakewood and a habitual frequenter of our many fine parks i find that closing the parks an hour after sunset to be a non-issue. especially kauffman. what exactly are you going to do in that park after it gets dark after sunset? walk? strike up a game of softball? watch the trains go by?
as a child, kauffman was for teeball and that's all i really knew or cared to know.
when i was a teen, walks after my dinner at burger king played no part! and certainly softball didn't even enter the conversation when hanging out there after dark. good lord, i loved that the parks were open late when i was a teen. not sure how my parents felt.
as an adult, there are a million other places i'd rather be than in some stinking park behind a strip mall after dark. what's the point?
i could care a less what non-residents feel about our parks closing after dark. as a parent, im glad that my fourteen year old can't be hiding under the bleachers doing god knows what at 10:45 pm.
the parks in lakewood are spot-on and i love em, use em and promote them. the parks here have been many things to me in my 42 years. what they have not been are issues that give me cause to complain over the silliest of reasons.
one hour after sunset? really? get a grip...you can play softball in the morning.
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:15 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
Kate
Really, close the park so that your son has one less place to hide?
Really?
On late nights at the office, I often stop by the Root, and walk over to the park to enjoy it,
and look north from the bleachers.
So while you seem to have utter disdain for Kauffman Park, why not let the other residents
who are glad for some green space in Downtown Lakewood, enjoy it.
I am glad your son is not under the bleachers too, but not at the cost of losing the
right for all of the others who are not using the park to hide or get into trouble.
.
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:50 pm
by kate e parker
refer to following post....
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:55 pm
by kate e parker
kate e parker wrote:Jim O'Bryan wrote:Kate
Really, close the park so that your son has one less place to hide?
one less place to hide? wow! you must not have kids. just another dig at someone who doesn't drink the kool aid from your pitcher. lemme guess, whoever doesn't agree with you is not a "real lakewoodite"?
Jim O'Bryan wrote:On late nights at the office, I often stop by the Root, and walk over to the park to enjoy it, and look north from the bleachers.
this must be a personal issue for you because i can stare north pretty much from where ever i'm standing. be it my front lawn, my neighbors patio, outside the library, taco bell...you name it, i can stare north. at whatever time i wish btw. but because jim obryan wants the park for his staring then to hell with everyone else.
Jim O'Bryan wrote:So while you seem to have utter disdain for Kauffman Park
utter disdain? cripes i love that park...WHEN IT'S LIT!!! i've played basketball there, i've had picnics there, i've gotten together with all my neices and nephews there (we still do) btw we do these things there when it's light out...not close to 11:00 pm.
Jim O'Bryan wrote:for some green space in Downtown Lakewood
hard to see green in the dark. why don't you throw abortion in the mix or hate crimes or the right to bear arms just to tweak the strings of sympathetic people. this sort of argument is RIDICULOUS!
you are a man of stats...give me the stats of people who actually use the park after let's say 9:30 pm. let's see the numbers.
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:02 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
kate e parker wrote:Jim O'Bryan wrote:Kate
Really, close the park so that your son has one less place to hide?[/qoute]
one less place to hide? wow! you must not have kids. just another dig at someone who doesn't drink the kool aid from your pitcher. lemme guess, whoever doesn't agree with you is not a "real lakewoodite"?
Kate
No koolaid, these are your words not mine. You said you were glad your son had one less
place to hide. I do not have children, so am I less a human, less a Lakewoodite? I never
doubted your rights as a Lakewoodite, just wondered aloud, how many of us have to give
up how much freedom, for other kids with behavior problems? I think it is a fair question.
kate e parker wrote:Jim O'Bryan wrote:On late nights at the office, I often stop by the Root, and walk over to the park to enjoy it, and look north from the bleachers.
this must be a personal issue for you because i can stare north pretty much from where ever i'm standing. be it my front lawn, my neighbors patio, outside the library, taco bell...you name it, i can stare north. at whatever time i wish btw. but because jim obryan wants the park for his staring then to hell with everyone else.
As opposed to Kate wanting it closed because of her need in help parenting?
Really. I do not see it as my park, but the city's park in Downtown Lakewood. I mean lets
be honest, we are closing this park based on one person who mentioned it was hard to
keep graffiti off. Nothing more. NOTHING
Really, close two parks early because of that? Oh, and the massive hiding under the
bleacher problem.
You really need to see the grass of a field to enjoy it? You have no appreciation for laying
back on the grass on a warm summer night and just look up. Or even close your eyes and
just enjoy laying there?
I have never meet anyone so desperate to close a public space to the public.
I am more perturb by the city constantly finding ridiculous reasons to take things from us
and continue to come up short in maintaining the city.
But thanks for the note.
.
Re: Public Safety Meeting re Park Hours/Pitbulls TONIGHT 6PM
Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:16 pm
by kate e parker
need help with parenting?
you've sunk to a new low, jim.
sorry about your spot for staring. i'm sure you will get over it. or maybe not.