Plain Dealer: Accelerate The Demolition of Inner Suburbs

[Jim O'Bryan]

One of the ideas:

"Resolve the problems within Cleveland's Water Department and preserve a prime example of practical regionalism"

Translation: How can we convince the people to embrace regionalization when our current regional institutions like the Cleveland Water Department are so incompetent they can't even track customer billings and so inefficient that they charge more for water than Avon Lake's water department?

I'm still puzzled by Fitzgerald's support of downtown housing subsidies as an economic development tool. In North Dakota they concentrated on job creation and now they have a housing shortage:

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/25/140784004 ... rth-dakota

It seems to me that if you concentrate on job creation housing will take care of itself.

State Chemical in Cleveland is moving from Cleveland to the Eastern suburbs. The owner lives out that way and they got a bargain on a new building.

Would government subsidized apartments have kept State Chemical in Cleveland? How about concerts at Voinovich Park? How about a redesigned public square? How about more subsidies for the West Side Market? The Plain Dealer thinks so.

Hey Plain Dealer!!! What ever happened to those 80,000 Gateway jobs?

Bill

Which brings us right back, to if your city or region is trying to manage decline, and they
are very successful, all they have done is manage decline.

I have to think the focus on Downtown housing has more to do with, "look what I am doing"
more than look what I can do. Downtown was the fastest growing area in the
county long before Ed got the gig. But let's be honest, Everyone has Ed moving on to
the state house, so why not grab some nice bullet points for literature?

Or the Casino jobs, or the Rock Hall Jobs, or the GLSC jobs, or the Browns Stadium influx.
WE have got to start holding people's feet to the fire, instead of following false promise
and shiny objects.

.

[Bill Call]

Or the Casino jobs, or the Rock Hall Jobs, or the GLSC jobs, or the Browns Stadium influx.
WE have got to start holding people's feet to the fire, instead of following false promise
and shiny objects.

.

I call it the pursuit of the downtown Disneyland.

Some of you might not recall the article in a national magazine that had wonderful things to say about Lakewood and its housing. When the Plain Dealer reported on the article they included this picture as an example of Lakewood housing

Why this picture?

Find the answer and you open a door into the mind of the people who run the Plain Dealer.

[Bill Call]

The City of Cleveland invested $7 million in the Avenue Tower Condominium project. The project is now in foreclosure. The City will lose its $7 million. According to the Plain Dealer we need more such subsidies for downtown apartments and condos.

Suppose the City had spend the $7 million at Clifton and 117th?

[Bill Call]

Is this what the Plain Dealer had in mind? How has it worked in Detroit? Demoltion without a plan for reconstruction is a dead end.

[Bill Call]

In this article Joe Frolik of the PD explains that the $7 billion dollars in taxpayer subsidies for downtown has been well spent:

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index. ... _city.html

(I don't know if the $7 billion includes the $45 million spent on the Ameritrust Building.)

From the year 2000 to 2010 the downtown population increased by 4,447 residents. A $7 billion investments results in a downtown population increase of 4,447 people? That comes out to about $1,574,000 per person. Sounds like bad investment to me.

Of course part of the $7 billion came from underinvesting in the rest of the City. Could that underinvestment have helped cause the loss of 82,000 residents since the 2000 census? Much of the rest of the money came from higher taxes which result in higher costs for business located in Cuyhoga County. In this highly competative environment if your product costs 2% more you might not get the business. What is the cost to Cuyahoga County of a business moving to Medina or Avon?

Much of what Cuyahoga County has done makes little sense.

New stadiums?
New convention center?
New Casino?
Subsidies for Playhouse Square?
Subsidies for downtown apartments?

If those businesses cannot generate enough economic activity to pay their own bills then how they can be economic engines?

A new apartment complex is being planned for the old Target site in Rocky River. As far as I know they won't be asking for taxpayer assistance. If they do will the taxpayers of Rocky River have to out bid the subsidy for downtown apartments?

The better question: If there is an increasing demand for apartment living how can Lakewood compete for that business? Why isn't that developer looking to Lakewood?

IF City officials can find an answer to that question then MAYBE some of those empty lots on Detroit can be the sites of new apartments rather than new dollar stores and low income housing.

[Scott Meeson]

In this article Joe Frolik of the PD explains that the $7 billion dollars in taxpayer subsidies for downtown has been well spent:

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index. ... _city.html

(I don't know if the $7 billion includes the $45 million spent on the Ameritrust Building.)

From the year 2000 to 2010 the downtown population increased by 4,447 residents. A $7 billion investments results in a downtown population increase of 4,447 people? That comes out to about $1,574,000 per person. Sounds like bad investment to me.

Of course part of the $7 billion came from underinvesting in the rest of the City. Could that underinvestment have helped cause the loss of 82,000 residents since the 2000 census? Much of the rest of the money came from higher taxes which result in higher costs for business located in Cuyhoga County. In this highly competative environment if your product costs 2% more you might not get the business. What is the cost to Cuyahoga County of a business moving to Medina or Avon?

Much of what Cuyahoga County has done makes little sense.

New stadiums?
New convention center?
New Casino?
Subsidies for Playhouse Square?
Subsidies for downtown apartments?

If those businesses cannot generate enough economic activity to pay their own bills then how they can be economic engines?

A new apartment complex is being planned for the old Target site in Rocky River. As far as I know they won't be asking for taxpayer assistance. If they do will the taxpayers of Rocky River have to out bid the subsidy for downtown apartments?

The better question: If there is an increasing demand for apartment living how can Lakewood compete for that business? Why isn't that developer looking to Lakewood?

IF City officials can find an answer to that question then MAYBE some of those empty lots on Detroit can be the sites of new apartments rather than new dollar stores and low income housing.

Bill,

We do appear to have a good inventory of clueless narcissistic politicians who need help wiping their asses! IMHO

One of these days we'll be able to vote for a larger quantity of qualified people who actually know what their doing; maybe even perform a little due diligence before they take action. An oversized ego doesn't seem to be cutting the mustard anymore.

I'm hopeful we can get the right people to run for office...people who have, at a minimum, the capability of listening and observing.

Scott