Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:27 am
by Jim O'Bryan
Gary
You are kidding yourself if you want to equate this to music.
Matt
This morning between coffee, breakfast, and the David Anderson ice cream party, I have spoken with more than 30 people about this. All thought you and I were making something out of nothing, and that I should post the images. I told them the story of you and you young kids going to the park and calling in the graffiti. I mention that the only reason you went back is that you had received a letter from the city that all of the graffiti was removed. Then I mention what we found when we went back that afternoon.
Again this area of the park is reserved for under 12 year olds, and will be the end of Lakewood's Spooky Pooch Parade. So that thousands will get to see how well we keep our city clean and ready for them to move in.
When I show those asking me to post the images. A policy I have no interest in breaking, I show them 8 images on my i-phone. They cannot believe it.
I suppose this is the door no graffiti free. Welcome to Lakewood!
One of the 87 pieces of graffiti and tagging that remains. Welcome to Lakewood.
15' away from this.
Every person that saw the images, have then begged me to never show them. They are aghast that you girls and boys would have to use equipment deck out in sexual organs, drawings, and very descriptive language.
No I am pretty damn liberal, and do not blush easily. But this is nuts!
20 square feet, just cleaned, with 87 variations of tagging and cave porno, all for our under 12-year-olds and spooky pooch friends to gave at, wonder about and ask mom and dad what it all means.
FWIW
,
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:16 pm
by Gary Rice
Jim,
You are kidding yourself if you ever thought that I took this kind of thing lightly.
But there are other things that I do not take lightly either.
The right to voice my opinion, for example.
Back to the banjo...
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:29 pm
by Colleen Wing
Much like a couple in the heavy courting phase of their relationship, an election year normally brings fast solution to lingering problems that are highly visible and should have been taken care throughout the year. I hope that a lack of competition isn't allowing us to "let ourselves go"...
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:29 pm
by marklingm
Gary,
Read your posts. It appears that you often use your right to voice your opinions to marginalize every issue with your "banjo" but this issue really is not amusing.
I reported the graffiti in the morning of September 29, 2011, and I received the following email at 4:12 p.m. on that same date.
From: Lewis, Patrick Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 4:12 PM To: Matt Markling Subject:
Mr. Markling,
The graffiti has been removed from the park.
Patrick J. Lewis Division Manager Streets and Forestry City of Lakewood 216 529-6814
So, Jim and I drove to the park to see whether it was, in fact, removed. As of 5:29 p.m. on that same day (as evidenced by Jim's photo above), the graffiti was not, in fact, removed from the park.
I reported the graffiti again the next day. Maybe cleaning was done on that date? I hope so.
We pay taxes for safe and clean City Parks. It's not fun to take your sons to a playground riddled with filth.
You should see the photos that Jim did not post!
Matt
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:41 pm
by marklingm
Colleen Wing wrote:Much like a couple in the heavy courting phase of their relationship, an election year normally brings fast solution to lingering problems that are highly visible and should have been taken care throughout the year. I hope that a lack of competition isn't allowing us to "let ourselves go"...
Colleen,
I suppose one of the many things that you get from uncontested elections are playgrounds which are:
Jim O'Bryan wrote:20 square feet, just cleaned, with 87 variations of tagging and cave porno, all for our under 12-year-olds and spooky pooch friends to [look] at, wonder about and ask mom and dad what it all means.
Matt
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:56 pm
by Gary Rice
As posted earlier, I understand, and fully agree with the outrage business in all of this. The parks need to be continually kept clean, safe and free of vandalism,
That's the City's responsibility, and I believe that Matt and Jim are both certainly correct in bringing all of this to the attention of the City, as well as to the citizenry.
What I do not understand or agree with, is the personal turn that I perceive this thread seems to have taken.
If people do not want any reactions to their posts, perhaps their concerns should be expressed as an op-ed piece in the paper. A thread, on the other hand, invites public response.
Suffice to say, redundantly, that I agree that the marks need to be gone from the parks, and the sooner the better. There has been no marginalization of this issue at all on my part intended about the central points being offered here.
Back to the banjo. My strings by the way, are just fine, and if it makes people feel any better, I am not amused either.
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:37 pm
by Meg Ostrowski
Now that I've taken a look at this "graffiti" I agree that this is not suitable public art. City of Lakewood, please break out the ELEPHANT SNOT and take care of cleaning this up.
With a little attention and effort, Kauffman Park could be a real asset to downtown. An approved mural on the west side of the facilities building would be a welcome addition and possible deterant to vandals.
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:39 am
by Jim O'Bryan
Meg Ostrowski wrote:Now that I've taken a look at this "graffiti" I agree that this is not suitable public art. City of Lakewood, please break out the ELEPHANT SNOT and take care of cleaning this up.
With a little attention and effort, Kauffman Park could be a real asset to downtown. An approved mural on the west side of the facilities building would be a welcome addition and possible deterant to vandals.
Meg
Even without effort Kauffman Park IS NOW a great asset to DowntowN Lakewood, and it is time that the city understood that. Instead of trying to let it become the run down piece of property that they have to sell to developers, why can't it become the central green space in DowntowN Lakewood.
If you look at where the graffiti is, it is where there is little traffic, except parents with young kids. There is none at the Basketball courts, because they are heavily used. There is none by Jimmy Foxx Field, because it is used. We must get people to this corner of the park. For years I thought it would be good for a BMX park much like the skate park, but would be much easier and cheaper to build, and could be made to look very nice with landscaping.
If the city cannot afford to take care of it, then give it to the schools, and start building the new school there.
.
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:33 am
by Edward Favre
It's an interesting thread about graffiti. However I think some things get lost in the philosophical discussion.
Graffiti is not art, it's vandalism, regardless of the potential talent of the vandal. Much of it is trash talk. It is defacing our public property at our public expense or defacing an individual's private property at the individual property owner's expense.
Let the vandals paint or mark up their foreheads or personal property. Those who think it is cute or artsy should invite the so called artists onto their property. But please stop condoning and encouraging it at public or other's expense.
There's no comparision between an artist openly and legitimately permitted or retained to do a work of art or design with the consent of the properety's owner and to a person who sneaks onto and trespasses on another's property to deface it.
Vandals should be caught, prosecuted and required to clean up their mess.
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:00 am
by Scott Meeson
Edward Favre wrote:It's an interesting thread about graffiti. However I think some things get lost in the philosophical discussion.
Graffiti is not art, it's vandalism, regardless of the potential talent of the vandal. Much of it is trash talk. It is defacing our public property at our public expense or defacing an individual's private property at the individual property owner's expense.
Let the vandals paint or mark up their foreheads or personal property. Those who think it is cute or artsy should invite the so called artists onto their property. But please stop condoning and encouraging it at public or other's expense.
There's no comparision between an artist openly and legitimately permitted or retained to do a work of art or design with the consent of the properety's owner and to a person who sneaks onto and trespasses on another's property to deface it.
Vandals should be caught, prosecuted and required to clean up their mess.
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:08 am
by marklingm
Edward Favre wrote:It's an interesting thread about graffiti. However I think some things get lost in the philosophical discussion.
Graffiti is not art, it's vandalism, regardless of the potential talent of the vandal. Much of it is trash talk. It is defacing our public property at our public expense or defacing an individual's private property at the individual property owner's expense.
Let the vandals paint or mark up their foreheads or personal property. Those who think it is cute or artsy should invite the so called artists onto their property. But please stop condoning and encouraging it at public or other's expense.
There's no comparision between an artist openly and legitimately permitted or retained to do a work of art or design with the consent of the properety's owner and to a person who sneaks onto and trespasses on another's property to deface it.
Vandals should be caught, prosecuted and required to clean up their mess.
Well said, Ed.
I guess we will see how serious the Mayor and City Hall are on keeping the City of Lakewood safe and clean in the coming days/weeks/months.
I hope they don't do a hiring freeze or layoff our police officers.
Thank you, again, Ed, for your service on the Lakewood Police Department.
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:14 pm
by marklingm
Gary Rice wrote:If people do not want any reactions to their posts, perhaps their concerns should be expressed as an op-ed piece in the paper. A thread, on the other hand, invites public response.
Gary,
I do want reactions to my posts and invite public responses to all of them - especially this thread.
Op-ed pieces in The Lakewood Observer serve there purposes, but they also allow anointed/appointed/elected public officials and civic leaders to hide from instantaneous reactions and responses from the public.
While the Mayor and City Council (with the exception of Shawn Juris) do not engage the Citizens of Lakewood on the Deck, we all know that City Hall reads the Deck so I think it is important that City Hall reads our reactions and responses to this issue - whether we agree or not - and especially when most of those now running for election at City Hall will be elected this November in uncontested elections … as Colleen points out.
Matt
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:36 pm
by Charlie Page
Matthew John Markling wrote:
Edward Favre wrote:It's an interesting thread about graffiti. However I think some things get lost in the philosophical discussion.
Graffiti is not art, it's vandalism, regardless of the potential talent of the vandal. Much of it is trash talk. It is defacing our public property at our public expense or defacing an individual's private property at the individual property owner's expense.
Let the vandals paint or mark up their foreheads or personal property. Those who think it is cute or artsy should invite the so called artists onto their property. But please stop condoning and encouraging it at public or other's expense.
There's no comparision between an artist openly and legitimately permitted or retained to do a work of art or design with the consent of the properety's owner and to a person who sneaks onto and trespasses on another's property to deface it.
Vandals should be caught, prosecuted and required to clean up their mess.
Well said, Ed.
Yes, well said Ed.
We stopped by Kauffman Park on our way home from the library this afternoon. I was curious to see if there was any graffiti and there was. I’m not sure if it was new or left over. However, there wasn’t 87 instances unless you include the carvings. It was a mix of spray paint and black Sharpie. I reported the issue via the City’s report a problem on their website.
Note to parents: if your kid leaves the house with a Sharpie, ask him/her what they plan on doing with it. Mention to him/her that there’s been an increase in graffiti and ask if they’re in anyway involved.
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:45 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
Charlie Page wrote:We stopped by Kauffman Park on our way home from the library this afternoon. I was curious to see if there was any graffiti and there was. I’m not sure if it was new or left over. However, there wasn’t 87 instances unless you include the carvings. It was a mix of spray paint and black Sharpie. I reported the issue via the City’s report a problem on their website.
Charlie
No reason to exaggerate.
Did you put the kids on the slide?
Did you look on the bench? Behind the bench?
The railings? Did you count the stuff on the steps?
Believe me, it was there, and is slowly disappearing. But one can certainly asked how it would have looked if Matt had not followed up on the city's letter that everything was gone and looking good.
.
Re: Is the City Losing the Fight Against Graffiti?
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:00 pm
by Charlie Page
Jim O'Bryan wrote:
Charlie Page wrote:We stopped by Kauffman Park on our way home from the library this afternoon. I was curious to see if there was any graffiti and there was. I’m not sure if it was new or left over. However, there wasn’t 87 instances unless you include the carvings. It was a mix of spray paint and black Sharpie. I reported the issue via the City’s report a problem on their website.
Charlie
No reason to exaggerate.
Did you put the kids on the slide?
Did you look on the bench? Behind the bench?
The railings? Did you count the stuff on the steps?
Believe me, it was there, and is slowly disappearing. But one can certainly asked how it would have looked if Matt had not followed up on the city's letter that everything was gone and looking good.
.
Jim - I'm not saying you're exaggerating. I believe you. The example in the pic you posted above was gone. Maybe the City is in the process of cleaning it up so there wasn't 87 instances. Sorry, I should have been clearer.
No, I wouldn't let them use the disgusting slide. As a matter of fact, we were there for less than 5 minutes.
