The Observation Deck

Thealexa Becker wrote:Creating a new business is Economic Development. Keeping existing businesses profitable in the new era of technology is Economoic Development.

I will never understand how people think this is a bad thing. It's not like anyone is suggesting that we build factories or giant super malls in Lakewood.

Thealexa

Of course it is a good thing.

But is it a good thing to ignore either one over the other?

Is it a good thing to take federal money from one, to support the other?

At what point does the actions of the city, the CDC, the businesses and the residents
cause a major shift in balance from Great place to raise a family to great place to shop?
Can in fact we be both, by concentrating on only one? Right now, much of our efforts
are being funneled into a machine that believes ED saves us. End of the reasoning? What
you are saying for ED could certainly apply to residential as well, right?

One could certainly ask, where Lakewood would be right now had the same or even equal
amount of attention had been placed on the residents(our number one business) as six
blocks in downtown? I am not really finding fault with Downtown, just noting that. Where
is the best place to put the money? Let's go back to our new shiny object, McDonlads. No
one is happy on Woodward, Wagar, Hall, Edwards, or Ethel. Actually they feel that they
are under a constant battle with the city and development. Denny's, IHop, McDonald's,
Hall House, Schools, Tracks, Bars, etc. At what point do we give them up, for Mickey Ds?
And if you are telling me ED is good, then you best not be one of the people that fought
to keep that hotel off Sloan, because of traffic and shadows. Is all I am saying.

Lakewood is an incredibly built out space. So when you fill that empty spot, it nearly
always affects the spots on each side, even if they are empty too. Figuring all of this out
is a key to Lakewood's Future. And as we are the pretty girl at the dance right now, we
can afford to plan, and be picky.

But another simple question. If an entity can purchased a foreclosed house for $2,000 and
do anything they want with it including rebuilding and selling for $150,000+ or banking it
for some other reason like Economic Development, and profit greatly from it. Or the
group also could help people stay in that house, but not make the profit, would they?

This will be a pretty wild summer in Lakewood for hurt feelings I think.

FWIW

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I don't know anything about a hotel on Sloan, but why would that have been a bad thing?

Of course it isn't good to ignore one over the other.

What I am suggesting is that there is already property in Lakewood for business that is vacant and someone NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT. That is the kind of development I am talking about, not you know, tearing down houses to make way for new businesses. If the structures exist, put them to good use instead of letting them languish and become detrimental and liabilities to the city and residents near them. The area I am talking about is Detroit east of Bunts. Lots of potential, not a lot of development.

To that end, I do not see how making better use of those properties would cause Lakewood to shift from a great place to live to a great place to shop. Besides, why can't it be both? Those are not mutually exclusive. I know the city of Northampton, MA is both and that city is flourishing.

Certainly what I am saying applies to residents, but there are different issues at play with that can of worms that with the business end. One of the inherent difficulties there is that individual residents can be stubborn, as I know you have seen, to comply with regulations and to keep up their property. That is a more difficult task simply because residents are so much more numerous than businesses. But obviously that is an important issue too.

The only reason I would be irritated if I lived on any of those aforementioned streets is because those are all restaurants moving in. I would have wanted more diversity, but I surely would not be upset by businesses filling vacant lots. Like a bookstore. Or a clothes store.

I have to disagree that Lakewood is the pretty girl at the dance. Pretty girls at the dance don't have vacant lot blemishes all over. Or you know, Madison Avenue.

And as for people turning profits on properties. You get that everywhere. A lot of that right now is a by product of the economy and the times. It stinks, but you can't really stop it. We aren't at the point where the community has enough strength to deter it.

Only this summer for hurt feelings? I wish it were only a summer. People have hurt feelings year round I think.

Thealexa Becker wrote:I don't know anything about a hotel on Sloan, but why would that have been a bad thing?

Of course it isn't good to ignore one over the other.

What I am suggesting is that there is already property in Lakewood for business that is vacant and someone NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING WITH IT. That is the kind of development I am talking about, not you know, tearing down houses to make way for new businesses. If the structures exist, put them to good use instead of letting them languish and become detrimental and liabilities to the city and residents near them. The area I am talking about is Detroit east of Bunts. Lots of potential, not a lot of development.

To that end, I do not see how making better use of those properties would cause Lakewood to shift from a great place to live to a great place to shop. Besides, why can't it be both? Those are not mutually exclusive. I know the city of Northampton, MA is both and that city is flourishing.

Well, it all depends on those shops and what they need...

While making a short trip to the Eastside for something that would be a destination here
if we could attract them (micro-center), it occurred to me, that we really do not actually
have economic development, I could be wrong. It would be great if I could find some
Lakewood historians I believe what we have/had were two very narrow bands
of retail to service the needs of the immediate residents. Not what most would call ED,
unless they had to because that is what they do.

In a walkable city with gas at $4 a gallon, it becomes a nice perk. When gas hits $6 a
gallon it becomes even more important. When it get $7 plus, where the VAL had put it
5 years from now, it will be what saves us, not large parking lots. Not drive troughs.
I was over in Euclid, picture to follow, and saw miles and miles of empty store fronts,
malls, factories, even schools. But I still did not see miles and miles of empty homes.
Everything comes and goes, except clean safe fun living. Maybe we are in the best location
in the nation?

Thealexa Becker wrote:I have to disagree that Lakewood is the pretty girl at the dance. Pretty girls at the dance don't have vacant lot blemishes all over. Or you know, Madison Avenue.

Ahhhhhhhhh my young friend. Beauty resides not on the skin, but down deep, and I love
many cities in this region after getting to know the people. But I would not trade a single
Lakewoodite for any of them. Our beauty is in our neighborhoods, not on the painted up
lips of Detroit and Madison. Blemishes, while they come and go, every human and city
get them their whole life. But do we order plastic surgery? Reconstructive surgery? Or
simple buy some vertical stripes and ? No, we are the best in the region, let me assure
you. Coolest in the country? Well Per W is nice, and Matt Fish is a marketing machine at
the Melt. But I am still mystified over that one. When I work in all of the cities we are now
in, everyone, everyone asks about Lakewood and how we are doing it. Everyone, Everyone
knows about the library, the schools, and the people. Take a breath I think they are
flirting with us!

Thealexa Becker wrote:Only this summer for hurt feelings? I wish it were only a summer. People have hurt feelings year round I think.

One of the reasons I smile when I see you post or talk with Bret Callentine.

So where do we put these?


Th new Lincoln Electric Windmill shot from 21 blocks away in Euclid. It is rumored that
5 of these would provide Lakewood with over 100% of it's needed power! So where do
we put them? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:So where do we put these?


Th new Lincoln Electric Windmill shot from 21 blocks away in Euclid. It is rumored that
5 of these would provide Lakewood with over 100% of it's needed power! So where do
we put them? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

.

Well, isn't the wind from off of Lake Erie the strongest? I guess to be most effective for generating power for the city, they should be by the lake.

Betsy Voinovich

Um, who on earth puts a windmill in a location like that? That's utterly silly.

There is a nice strip of windmills on the highway in PA heading to DC. I mean, that made sense, nice open fields, lots of wind coming in through the hills...you know?

Yes, beauty is not skin deep, I know the old adage. But sadly, we are talking about two different things. Every time I talk about Madison or empty store fronts you argue back that the people here are great. I'm not arguing about that. I'm talking about economic development or at least rehab. That doesn't have much to do with residents. And what does me being young have to do with anything?

Yeah Lakewood is doing pretty well for the Midwest, or at least Ohio, but it still pales in comparison to some regions on the East Coast. I think we need to temper our enthusiasm and not think that we can coast because we happen to be doing better than our neighbors.

But I think that you are not clear on what Economic Development encompasses. Basically, there are three broad categories that countries and regions follow when trying to go about this. 1) Fiscal policy 2) Infrastructure and education 3) job creation and retention and real estate development and business retention, creation and promotion.

I am talking about #3, which I believe also includes your concerns about real estate. See in economics, real estate is considered a part of economic development. So I would hazard that Lakewood, since it has real estate AND business has had economic development. I mean we aren't living in the middle of the sahara with no running water, so yeah, most people who know what economic development means, or googled the term would say Lakewood had it. I know two historians who agree with me.

I think you are attaching far far to narrow a term to economic development. I am saying that the city needs to focus on business growth and retention and real estate upkeep, both of which are the focus of economic development in 1st world countries.

Yeah, Lakewood is walkable, but I can't walk to Target to get cheaper food or detergent. I mean I could, but in the winter that would be insane.

So, it would be nice if we could have more diverse businesses brought to Lakewood in some of that empty property. Then Lakewood can be walkable and serve all its residents more fully.

Thealexa Becker wrote:Yeah Lakewood is doing pretty well for the Midwest, or at least Ohio, but it still pales in comparison to some regions on the East Coast. I think we need to temper our enthusiasm and not think that we can coast because we happen to be doing better than our neighbors.

Thealexa

At what point did you get the idea of coasting? What I am suggesting is a semi-major
course correction, to allow us to fill our sales with works in this town, grab the steady sure
breeze and use it to move us even farther ahead of where we both admit we are. You are
right this is certainly not the time to coast, or grab the anchor on the Titanic. Now is the time
to solidify, our brand, simply put, key pieces that brought people here, and use that to
find more like minded people. This is not rocket surgery.(Ezra Pound)

Thealexa Becker wrote:U
But I think that you are not clear on what Economic Development encompasses. Basically, there are three broad categories that countries and regions follow when trying to go about this. 1) Fiscal policy 2) Infrastructure and education 3) job creation and retention and real estate development and business retention, creation and promotion.

Thealexa
This would be the description from an EDC, everything after the creation of the world they will give credit and absorb into their realm, falls under their description.
Seriously
Can't you see the problems with this description. It is hard to serve two masters but 20?
Maybe this is why the same people are all on the same committee. Maybe in a vacuum,
this might even be possible and fair. But in the real world, almost laughable.

Thealexa Becker wrote:I think you are attaching far far to narrow a term to economic development. I am saying that the city needs to focus on business growth and retention and real estate upkeep, both of which are the focus of economic development in 1st world countries.

Thealexa
If you can't do them all, and if the city is built out, and if, just if people love what you are
doing right, do I throw the dice, or dance with the girl that invited me to the dance?
We have limited resources, so limited that the last ten years we concentrated on 1 thing,
ED, and we have 42 houses slated to be brought down, because they cannot be save. I am
thinking, it might be wise, to refocus, as long as retail, and the economy sucks.

Thealexa Becker wrote:Yeah, Lakewood is walkable, but I can't walk to Target to get cheaper food or detergent. I mean I could, but in the winter that would be insane.
.

In Lakewood you are within minutes by car or bus. No need to panic.

Thealexa Becker wrote:So, it would be nice if we could have more diverse businesses brought to Lakewood in some of that empty property. Then Lakewood can be walkable and serve all its residents more fully.

WE agree!

peace

Jim,

I know that I can get to Target by car or bus or even bike. But that is not walking, which was the point.

The description is not exclusively from an EDC but could be found in any economics textbook. I've had that description in my classes. In my INTRO classes. It's not some ulterior motive propaganda. It's what it is. If you don't like what economic development is well...tough luck I guess.

The EDC's use that terminology because THAT IS THE DEFINITION. They didn't make it up. It has nothing to do with serving 20 masters and everything to do with what economic development is and its components. I fear that you are in fact confusing a technical definition with what you think are motives. Like, I literally got this description from a place not associated with an EDC. There isn't a problem with it. But you seem to want to see one.

I have a Historian who would disagree with your statement about focusing on good Economic Development. I am confused as to why you think improving houses but not businesses at the same time is a good idea. I mean, in this economy, both houses and businesses suck.

Thealexa Becker wrote:Jim,
I know that I can get to Target by car or bus or even bike. But that is not walking, which was the point.

Thealexa

Seriously, you cannot take every statement as black or white. There will always be shades
of gray. Right now some would need to take a bus to Fairview Hospital. It does not mean
the city is no longer walkable.

Thealexa Becker wrote:The description is not exclusively from an EDC but could be found in any economics textbook. I've had that description in my classes. In my INTRO classes. It's not some ulterior motive propaganda. It's what it is. If you don't like what economic development is well...tough luck I guess.

The EDC's use that terminology because THAT IS THE DEFINITION. They didn't make it up. It has nothing to do with serving 20 masters and everything to do with what economic development is and its components. I fear that you are in fact confusing a technical definition with what you think are motives. Like, I literally got this description from a place not associated with an EDC. There isn't a problem with it. But you seem to want to see one.

I am sure this is your definition from your intro classes, and I have to be honest I have
very little time spent in classrooms on this. But I do have a ton of practical experience
with CDCs, EDCs, Community groups, and watching how ED works with residential. In a
perfect world there is some form of balance ala Sim City, in the real world it gets tougher.
When it arrives on our doorstep it becomes a very slippery slope with the edge razor sharp.

Witness McDonald's, witness Ferchel Project, witness Yates Project, witness WestEnd, all
of these were massive projects that allowed retail, and commercial property to not just
cut deep into neighborhoods but completely changed the complexion of the city forever.
EDCs tend to believe ED can save a city. CDCs usually beieve they can save the city for
the residents with ED. Community Groups tend to believe ED is evil, and they have no seat
at the table, which is usually correct. Because in all of these groups their belief are tied
directly to their funding stream, just like politicians. And that is when your definition goes
out the window for the residents of a community. This is why many of us have said for over
a decade what are we? If you were to ask 99% of all politicians in this town they will tell
you the Hospital is our industry, then Government. Which is just wrong. They might be our
largest employers, but HOMES, and LIVING is our industry. I am willing to bet home based
businesses now eclipse Government and the Hospital right now. So this would mean the
single largest focus and user of outside funding, is at best 5th in importance? Which one
would believe, especially if you talk with those here, that they really want ED to push retail
into the number one spot. This would be a massive change in direction for a community and
to the lives of the 50,001 that live here.

Yeah in a black and white world definitions are great. Now bring it to the street level here
in Lakewood.

Thealexa Becker wrote:I have a Historian who would disagree with your statement about focusing on good Economic Development. I am confused as to why you think improving houses but not businesses at the same time is a good idea. I mean, in this economy, both houses and businesses suck.

Wow, pretty rough view of a city that seems to have a lot together. Rentals are coming
back strong. How odd, that just 5 years ago we had our EDC saying get rid of doubles and
rentals. Everyone will own, turn doubles into singles, and tear down singles for larger lots.
Of course this was before they started asking people to count anything that moved as a
family member for the census, before deciding to get rid of 42 homes???? Talk about
bipolar! The city of Lakewood has some wonderful programs for homeowners, but the
message is sometimes overshadowed but the need to give $100,000 to a thriving business
instead of incentives to rebuild homes. Instead of zero interest loans, instead of group buys, etc.

In your vacuum world of black and white you make everything better. In the real world, you
have a set dollar amount to spend, and a set time you can spend, and you have to make
decisions, tough decisions. We have erred on the side of retail saving us for too long.

FWIW


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Jim,

I do not see things in black and white. I see in technicolor 3D

As far as the walking goes, we are arguing two different things. I don't disagree Lakewood is walkable. I'm arguing that Lakewood does not have everything you need retail wise. I almost always shop for things not groceries or specialty items outside of Lakewood, and not because I don't want to support local business. There are lots of things missing. Obviously you can walk from end to end in 1.5 hours.

It's easy to tell someone they are wrong by saying that you are being too rigid in your views or that because you have never heard of what something really is, it must not be the way it is supposed to be.

But while you can argue that I see things in black and white, I could argue that you like to read into everything like its some kind of mystery novel. You want to see to believe that everything is complicated. Sometimes it doesn't have to be.

I actually happen to know people who were upset that the WestEnd project got stalled. So it isn't as if you can present this issue as if it was some tight knit group of backroom dealers versus everyone else. The vote was very close if I remember. So there was support for an idea like this, which has to have some merit in a discussion.

Why wouldn't an EDC or a CDC believe that economic development could save a city? That's their job. That's like being a doctor and thinking, "meh, maybe I can save this guy, maybe I can't". You need to have some confidence if you are going to work as an organization with a purpose.

Technically, homes is NOT considered an industry. I know you want to characterize it that way, but it isn't, because Lakewood doesn't move houses actively on the market. Lakewood does make money off of taxes, but so does every government with property owners on it, which would be all of them. When the Federal Government talks about the housing industry, they don't mean what you mean. They mean the process where individuals finance a home and where homes are built. You are presenting it as if Lakewood's main purpose and function is housing. It isn't. I mean, it has people and people need houses...but that is about as far as that goes.

Now, housing stock is a very important asset. But that is because if people like living here, and there is demand for housing, tax revenues go up. Calling that an industy is suggesting that Lakewood is trying to make a profit for private citizens with houses. But it's like saying that you want to make sure the greenspaces are nice. They are an asset, but I wouldn't call trees an industry in Lakewood.

The hospital is the closest thing to an industry that we have in Lakewood. And if you want to build up any industry, even if you want to continue to argue that housing is an industry at the local level, you will need economic development. You might not like it. You might not like what it is defined as, but you know, Lakewood was created with economic development, so eventually you need to come to terms with the fact that we need it for both businesses and housing.

You think that housing in this city is coming back strong? Where? Doesn't look like it where I live, or east of where I live. I mean, things have gotten better slowly thanks to certain outreach groups, but coming back strong? I think you're pulling my leg.

And my "world" isn't making everything better. I think I have a less rosy view of the city than you do. As much as I like Lakewood, I just can't be as optimistic about Lakewood's progress. Perhaps it's because of my education, and I just learned that things never turn out as nicely as you would like.

P.S. It is very rare that a policitian understands economic terminology or concepts as well as they would have you believe. Ask me about the banking solution some time if you want to hear a hilarious story that highlights just how well politicians understand how the economy works on all levels.

Thealexa Becker wrote:Jim,

I do not see things in black and white. I see in technicolor 3D

Thealexa

Love this response.

Seriously though, when 51 percent of the living units in Lakewood are rental, it is
our number one industry.

It is also the key to our future. The rentals, not the singles. The singles are merely the
frosting on the cake, and come middle of July, you will hear how.

peace

Would it be considered our number one industry if the owners of the houses who rent live outside of Lakewood?

I would argue no. It's the difference between GDP and GNP. Both houses on either side of me are owned by people outside of Lakewood. So that money does not go back into the hands of Lakewood residents. People in Lakewood are not making money off of all of the rentals.

What does July have to do with anything other than being exceedingly humid and hot?

Is this another vague indication of an event?

Thealexa Becker wrote:What does July have to do with anything other than being exceedingly humid and hot?

Is this another vague indication of an event?

One would ask how much we make off of the hospital, schools, and government but that
would be impolite.

As for the quote above, conversation lead to compromise and agreement.

off to the board meeting...

peace