The Observation Deck

Mike Zannoni wrote:I will look back at your post. Whether it is technologically possible is not my main point. It is that there is nothing about Steve's behavior indicating that it was.

It IS technologically possible, yes, but it seems unlikely. It's too lame, to spoof someone's email and have it say only what it says, nothing more egregious or culpable.

It's like breaking into someone's house with expensive burglary tools and stealing a ball point pen.

thou doest protest too much

We may never know what truly happened with this "e-mailgate" situation. There are so many scenarios and potential outcomes here as to boggle the mind. I, for one, find it difficult to think that when the Councilman publicly listed his grievances in response to my posting, that he would shortly thereafter send the type of e-mail that he allegedly might have done. The style, the tone, the passion, just all seems, well, different.

And by thinking this, I do not imply any culpability by the receiver either. There are just too many questions that this technological age as brought to us.

Whatever.

Even if the Councilman did send it, who among us have not shown our temper at inappropriate times?

At least all of this is in the hands of the law, and that is where would seem to presently belong.

The tragedy, as always, it that this sort of stuff can escalate to that point, in the first place.

Back in my teaching days, and early in the life of the internet, we were told, time and again, that ANY postings, and even ANY websites that we visited online would follow us around forever. The internet is NOT private.

Kinda reminds me of my Sunday School days, when they told us that God knows all about everything we ever did, good or bad....

....and some of us even had doubts that such a thing could be possible.

Well, as the principals here have discovered, with God (and OTHER authorities) all things are indeed possible.

Look, I've sometimes driven some people on this 'Deck to distraction with my virtual "peace-making banjo playing" here. Seems to me that some people would just rather raise Cain in life than honestly LISTEN to each other.

But as anyone who's done any conflict-resolution work would quickly tell you. Conflicts generally tend to escalate...unless brought in check by deliberate action.

Somehow, humankind has never really learned how to discuss and debate stuff rationally. There always seems to be that ONE person who wants to kick that can and escalate things to the next step.

...and like the Good Book says, as ye sow, so shall ye reap.

Back to the banjo. After all, today's Woody Guthrie's 100th birthday!

Happy birthday Woody!

I remember well the words of one of your songs....about there being a better world a-comin'.

Like a pastor friend of mine once said. The problem that we have in life is not so much knowing that the lion will lie down with the lamb someday. They do that now. The problem is that only one of them gets back up.

Let's SING something today!

The defensiveness is understandable, because conclusions are being jumped to in a very big way. Mike Z. has tortuously dissected every semantic angle of my last post (thank you). However I was merely trying to point out that the animosity between these two parties was very public. Period.

The biggest conclusion of all, is publishing the email screen shot and not acknowledging that it could be fake. That was a conscious decision that was made. Please correct me, but if I'm going to accuse someone in the court of public opinion, and give no other possible option for the occurrence, isn't that leaving out the possibility that my assertion could be wrong? Then what?

Steve published this with the conclusion that it MUST have been from Shawn, because well, there is animosity between the parties so it just seemed to make sense.

LET ME SAY THIS LOUDLY: I'm not inferring that Jim or Steve did it either.

I'm saying:
1) It was a sandbox fight happening in public.
2) Shawn's email was (foolishly) published on a public forum.
3) Because this Kabuki theater was/is public, what would prevent someone with the requisite knowledge, and perhaps a similar animosity for Mr. Juris, to jump in and create the phony email? I see nothing to prevent that scenario.

Mike likens this to using expensive burglary tools to steal a ball point pen. But what if it was just graffiti? Someone with the knowledge to mess with some heads? Nothing expensive from that angle, accept for the incredible harm caused.

Of course it could be Shawn, that was the motivating assumption. But—he said it was not him.
Steve and Jim have said it was not them.

So the investigation may then logically conclude that it was a third party using a public cock fight to manipulate events for their own enjoyment. This should have been considered, but was not.

I don't think it's too late for consideration, but it would require observing this from a different perspective and possibly adjusting attitude.

.

Dustin James wrote:However I was merely trying to point out that the animosity between these two parties was very public. Period.

Be honest, that wasn't the entire purpose of your post. Otherwise, why go out of your way to characterize the wording of the email as "scripted" and try and provide evidence that it could have been spoofed? It had the tone of a defense argument, not an objective parsing of an event timeline.

The biggest conclusion of all, is publishing the email screen shot and not acknowledging that it could be fake. That was a conscious decision that was made. Please correct me, but if I'm going to accuse someone in the court of public opinion, and give no other possible option for the occurrence, isn't that leaving out the possibility that my assertion could be wrong? Then what?

Isn't it equally possible that Mr. Davis hadn't even considered the possibility that the email was spoofed until Mr. Juris denied it and speculation began to rage? Why assume that there was a conscious decision to withhold a possibility, if there's no evidence that possibility was recognized?

I don't think anyone has completely eliminated the possibility that the email was faked, but there remains a high probability that he did send it himself.

Brian Pedaci wrote:

Dustin James wrote:However I was merely trying to point out that the animosity between these two parties was very public. Period.

Be honest, that wasn't the entire purpose of your post. Otherwise, why go out of your way to characterize the wording of the email as "scripted" and try and provide evidence that it could have been spoofed? It had the tone of a defense argument, not an objective parsing of an event timeline.

The biggest conclusion of all, is publishing the email screen shot and not acknowledging that it could be fake. That was a conscious decision that was made. Please correct me, but if I'm going to accuse someone in the court of public opinion, and give no other possible option for the occurrence, isn't that leaving out the possibility that my assertion could be wrong? Then what?

Isn't it equally possible that Mr. Davis hadn't even considered the possibility that the email was spoofed until Mr. Juris denied it and speculation began to rage? Why assume that there was a conscious decision to withhold a possibility, if there's no evidence that possibility was recognized?

I don't think anyone has completely eliminated the possibility that the email was faked, but there remains a high probability that he did send it himself.

I entirely agree, Brian. And I also do agree with Dustin (together with Bob for that matter), once I strip out certain of his implications related the supposedly "scripted" nature of the email content and any implication of suspicious or telling behavior on the part of Steve (and his ideas of what are improbable or unlikely actions or utterances on the part of Shawn), simply that a prankster should also be considered. It should.

We seem to have definitely reached the point beyond which only a serious investigation can take us. I really can't see the point of my speculating any further. Everyone involved is innocent, legally, until proven guilty, regardless of what seems most likely, probable, etc. Reputations are being hurt, and so whatever culpability is ultimately assigned for that email, that party is also responsible for all of this too.

Gary Rice wrote: Back to the banjo. After all, today's Woody Guthrie's 100th birthday!

Happy birthday Woody!

I remember well the words of one of your songs....about there being a better world a-comin'.

Gary, not sure which one, this one?

Now THAT was a campfire sing-a-long!

Back to the banjo.

Hi everyone! I resently moved here and I was reading this subject with alot of interest, and I just signed up for this.

Anyone know whats happening for this?

Thank you very much.

Kathy
Lakewood, Ohio, USA

Kathy --- Welcome!!!!!

Stan

Lakewood, Planet Earth (although some would dispute that)

Kathy - Welcome, indeed! Strap on your crash helmet and tighten up the seatbelt!

Hi Kathy,

Welcome to Lakewood and welcome to the Deck! Currently the police are conducting their investigation which everyone, Mr. Juris and Mr. Davis included, are still waiting to see what they find. In the meantime I wish you much luck and patience as you wade into the murky discussions on here.

I am always glad to hear of people moving to Lakewood, so again, truly, Welcome!

Shawn Juris cleared by the Lakewood Police Department.

http://lakewood-oh.patch.com/articles/police-city-councilman-s-email-identity-stolen

Christopher Bindel wrote:Shawn Juris cleared by the Lakewood Police Department.

http://lakewood-oh.patch.com/articles/police-city-councilman-s-email-identity-stolen

Why do I fell like the the "Get SJ" lynch mob here who were so "worried" about the initiation of an investigation will not care now whether it has been completed and a conclusion found?

Would there be any apologies to the councilman?

Or does this become one more conspiracy theory for the observers to discuss?

J Hrlec wrote:

Christopher Bindel wrote:Shawn Juris cleared by the Lakewood Police Department.

http://lakewood-oh.patch.com/articles/police-city-councilman-s-email-identity-stolen

Why do I fell like the the "Get SJ" lynch mob here who were so "worried" about the initiation of an investigation will not care now whether it has been completed and a conclusion found?

Would there be any apologies to the councilman?

Or does this become one more conspiracy theory for the observers to discuss?

Please keep in mind that Retractions/Corrections are usually last page material.

I for one am very glad that this was taken seriously and investigated. I'm also happy to hear that one of our city councilpersons is in fact not the type of politician that a legitimate email would have implied. While some folks clearly had sides one way or the other here - mob mentality in both directions - I don't see how demanding an investigation to get to the truth of something like this is anything to apologize for. Again, supporters and detractors alike should have been demanding it. It is unfortunate that there is no real conclusion here other than to clear Mr. Juris. No doubt human nature being what it is there will be speculation. Was it merely a prank or something more sinister? I for one would have liked to learn if this was a political enemy or a media hack job or a personal/business vendetta or what have you.