The Observation Deck

Dee Martinez wrote:To Mr Markling

If the state will only fund 2 of 3 schools what is the immediate imperative to do ANYTHING about Grant right now? Ive been there plenty of times, one of my kids went there and not that long ago. Unlike the schools from the 20s it is not falling apart. We got 100 years or more out of Garfield and Harrison. Grant isnt very pretty but its a fairly modern building. It doesnt need the extensive work Horace Mann or Emerson did.

Why not do a major remodel on Lincoln and Roosevelt with the state money and put major improvement on Grant off for another day, or do more modest improvements with a local-only issue?

Dee,

I would share this idea with the Phase III Steering Committee.

If you are interested in joining the Phase III Steering Committee (and have not already done so), please contact the Superintendent's Office at 1.216.529.4092.

Matt

Matthew John Markling wrote:[

Dee,

Consider calling the Phase III Hotline at 1-216-227-5315 or contacting a Phase III Steering Committee Member directly (or via PM, e-mail, and the like), and share your ideas:

I am sorry. Sometimes my snark and sarcasm gets the best of me and of course that "edit" function is gone so you cant take anything back.
For the record, I DONT want a big new school on the Warren Rd property and I DONT want the Lincoln and Grant communities combined into a school that is for all intensive purposes in the Grant neighborhood.
Like I said a couple days ago no matter what the BOE decides people are going to be mad at you. I sympathsize.

If I have a serious suggestion its the one I posted later. Fix Roosevelt and Lincoln and sit tight for a little bit on Grant.
Just dont start adding new twists to a purposeful, well-conceived and successful plan thats been on the burner for 7 years. You will only delay the ultimate completion of this project. I hope the other board members will see this for what it is.

Dee Martinez wrote:Just dont start adding new twists to a purposeful, well-conceived and successful plan thats been on the burner for 7 years. You will only delay the ultimate completion of this project. I hope the other board members will see this for what it is.

Dee


You make it sound like the Phase III Committee is nothing more than a committee picking out a DowntowN signed that had already been designed.

I would hope that that is not true. I know of many good mothers and fathers that have donated their time, effort and thought to the Phase III Process. But according to you it was decided years ago.

I mean if I am to extrapolate what you have been saying then the plan would have been for it to LOOK like the committee decided to save Lincoln, and close Grant or Roosevelt. That in fact Lincoln never should have even been on the docket for looking at.

I for one do not believe that to be true, because some very close dear friends have assured me this committee is the real deal.

But...

.

Matt-

These are Ed's words:

For the record, the Board of Education has not discussed any land use outside of that which it already owns. This includes Kauffman Park. There has been no Board discussion with City Officials. Kauffman Park is City property. As such, the Board of Education would be presumptuous to discuss any plan for Kauffman Park without the City's permission and obvious involvement.

We can't discuss a plan without the City's permission and involvement? Discuss? Wrong Ed, we can, we have, and we will. Taking action is a wholely different issue. That requires the City's involvement. You have to have the discussion before you can decide if the project has merit. Then you take the idea to the City to discover whether it could be a possibility.

As a member of the Phase III committee I feel compelled to weigh in here. I have spent numerous evenings away from my family on this committee – along with about 70 other residents of Lakewood.

We have all given of our time and attention to gather data, review information, and discuss issues in an effort to present that information to the citizens of Lakewood at what was the Community Forum on April 2nd. At that forum we presented our findings and requested the input of everyone there.

EVERYONE in this city has been invited and has had the opportunity to participate in the process. I completely understand and respect how difficult it can be to attend meetings every 2 weeks. However, that inability has not precluded anyone from contacting the hotline or a member of the committee to share your views.

Decisions were made 7 years ago about how to begin the process. It is my opinion that good decisions were made and the community VOTED on the past two bond issues. I was merely an attendee at one of the community forums back then.

As enrollment has changed, the makeup of the final phase has changed and therefore required a new committee of residents to come together to discuss the issues and variables now on the table.

We have had the community forum and have compiled the results of the surveys from that night. We are now beginning the process of delving into that information and it’s relationship to the three remaining elementary schools.

Once again we welcome anyone who would like to participate in the process. It is never too late to join the committee. If you don’t want to join or are unable to commit the time – please call the committee hotline or contact a committee member to share your views, ideas, questions.

You, of course, are free to debate this subject in any other forum you choose. However, you run the risk that your thoughts will not be included in the process because YOU didn’t submit them.

As a member of the committee I can only say that it is my wish that everyone who has input provides it to the committee so we can include it in our deliberations. Many of you know me and many of you don’t. Here’s a clue – I wouldn’t be participating in this if I thought for a minute that a decision had already been made.

And in the interest of full disclosure – my daughter goes to Roosevelt. That does not mean that my only interest is in keeping Roosevelt open. My only interest is in doing what is best for Lakewood, our children, and our community. THAT is why I sacrifice time with my children. It matters.

Dee Martinez wrote:If I have a serious suggestion its the one I posted later. Fix Roosevelt and Lincoln and sit tight for a little bit on Grant.

That's actually a very reasonable idea.

It keeps all three schools open, which is a good thing. It can be accomplished within the original budget ( no need for $15 million for a third school) also a good thing. If this ends up being the approved plan it won't leave me angry or upset. It might leave me a bit disappointed.

It is safe, sensible, and secure in the sense that it maintains the status quo. It doesn't hurt that it asks no sacrifices and needs no cooperation between the School Board and City Officials. It is the split the difference compromise plan. It solves the problem in a clever way that denies the possibilites.

Some think, perhaps rightly, that school building plans should only concern
the immediate needs of the district. I happen to think that a multiyear contstruction project costing hundreds of millions of dollars can also serve as a catalyst for further improvements in the financial health and quality of life in the City. I guess disappointed is the wrong word maybe it's resignation. or maybe not..

Anyway, a new school at Kaufman Park encompossing 12 acres and including an expanded Kaufman Field and recreation facility offers an opportunity that won't come again.

If such a plan included Drug Mart Plaza it would enhance the beauty of what is the heart of Lakewood, which would create a demand for a replacement plaza that could be the catalyst for more development which would open up the current site of the Board of Education and Grant School for new development or a new home for Beck Center which would open up the Beck site of new development which would enhance the competetiveness of the West end of Detroit and increase retail and entertainment traffic which whould enhance the economic potential of the old Giant Eagle lot which would... But of course all of that is risky. Perhaps it's better if we spend the hundreds of millions of dollars just to maintain the satus quo.

Whenever I drive by Rockport I am left wondering why the developer didn't spend 50% more to expand the foot print. An expanded foot print would have increased the desireablity of the site. Five years later instead of empty lots there would be a vibrant neighborhood. Such an expenditure would have been risky but sometimes the risky choice is ultmately less risky than the safe choice.

Whenever I drive by Garfield I see visible evidence of the results considering only the bare needs of a school building. The current foot print is too small for the school, destroyed the economic value of the surrounding streets and is fronted by a parking lot. Instead of enhancing the attractiveness of the surounding community it detracts from it.

Ultimately, making the safe choice will do the same for entire City.

I attended Roosevelt and McKinley elementary schools. there was always enough to do for the 20 or 30 minutes of recess time outside.

The playgrounds in Sheffield and westlake elementary schools had a lot more green space and blacktop space. but there is only so much fun a kid can fit into one day.

I like the shape and configuration of Roosevelt best. If they decide to build schools at Kaufman park they should just xerox the old blueprints for Roosevelt and build two or three Roosevelts adjacent to each other. Maybe expand the gymnasium rooms a bit.

My question at this point, is this actually being seriously considered?
Mr Markling will only say that no decisions have been made and that the BOE is looking at everything. He is only one of 5 board members though and reading this board you wouldnt have a clue what the other 4 are thinking.
No one from the city has said a word. In all 13 elected officials are involved and only 1 has commented at all.

When the peninsula idea came up Mr OBryan and many people here were all for it but no one in the city gave it the time of day (thank God for small favors)
Is it the same thing here? Is this a brainstorm of one LO reader that the BOE and city have no practical interest in? Or is this actually on the table between the city and schools?
This makes a difference. If its being seriously looked at, I will get involved to try to protest it. If its just one person tossing it out, its really not worth my time.
Would be nice to hear from someone on the city side on this, or other BOE members.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:

Dee Martinez wrote:Just dont start adding new twists to a purposeful, well-conceived and successful plan thats been on the burner for 7 years. You will only delay the ultimate completion of this project. I hope the other board members will see this for what it is.

Dee


You make it sound like the Phase III Committee is nothing more than a committee picking out a DowntowN signed that had already been designed.

I would hope that that is not true. I know of many good mothers and fathers that have donated their time, effort and thought to the Phase III Process. But according to you it was decided years ago.

I mean if I am to extrapolate what you have been saying then the plan would have been for it to LOOK like the committee decided to save Lincoln, and close Grant or Roosevelt. That in fact Lincoln never should have even been on the docket for looking at.

I for one do not believe that to be true, because some very close dear friends have assured me this committee is the real deal.

But...

.

At no point did I suggest that the steering committee was anything less than the "real deal."
However it will be the BOE that makes the decision.
For 7 years the plan was pretty clear:

Phase 1: Close Garfield and Madison. Build new elementaries at Harrison and Hayes. Build new middle schools at Garfield and Harding.
Phase 2: Do half the high school. Turn Emerson and Horace Mann into elementaries to replace Taft and McKinley.
Phase 3: Repair Grant and Lincoln, decide whether to repair or replace Roosevelt. FINISH THE HIGH SCHOOL.

The Lakewood schools were thrown a curve ball when the state revised its plan and said it would only support 6 elementary schools in Lakewood rather than the 7 it had originally agreed to.

That means the BOE will have to make a very difficult choice and while I dont mean to demean the steering committee in any way, we elected the BOARD to ultimately make that decision. Its a very smart move to get as much public input and support as possible but I didnt get to vote for anyone to the steering committee. If the state hadnt decided to cut its support, there wouldnt have even been a NEED for a sterring committee.

What I am saying is that at no point was there any talk of a plan that involved land swaps with the city or using the school project (including the sacrifice of Lincoln) as a means to develop Warren Rd or any other part of Lakewood.
Thats NOT what I voted for when I voted for Phase 1, which was the biggest bite out of my wallet.

I just received the following e-mail from a group called "PALS":

Unidentified PALS Person wrote:________________________________________
From: PALS
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 10:58 AM
Subject: Phase III Steering Committee

Hello Everyone,

It was decided at the last steering committee that anyone wanting to participate in the next steps going forward are welcome to join the committee. As many of you may know, the committee completed part one of the process with the community forum. Now, they will be focusing on the options before them so that a recommendation can be made to the BOE in the fall regarding which school, or schools, will be closed or renovated.

Please keep in mind that the committee would like members of the Phase III steering committee to be able to attend most of the meetings. They will be meeting throughout the summer, and are planning the last forum on September 15th.

If you are intersted please reply back the PALS email address and you will sent information about the next Steering Committee meeting.


PALS
Parent Advocates for Lakewood Students

I'm not sure who sent the above e-mail on behalf of "PALS" but you do not need to contact anyone on PALS to join the Phase III Steering Committee. As stated above:

Matthew John Markling wrote:If you are interested in joining the Phase III Steering Committee (and have not already done so), please contact the Superintendent's Office at 1.216.529.4092.

Again, if you want to join the Phase III Steering Committee, please simply call the Superintendent's Office at 1.216.529.4092.

Matt

Dee Martinez wrote:That means the BOE will have to make a very difficult choice and while I dont mean to demean the steering committee in any way, we elected the BOARD to ultimately make that decision. Its a very smart move to get as much public input and support as possible but I didnt get to vote for anyone to the steering committee. If the state hadnt decided to cut its support, there wouldnt have even been a NEED for a sterring committee.

What I am saying is that at no point was there any talk of a plan that involved land swaps with the city or using the school project (including the sacrifice of Lincoln) as a means to develop Warren Rd or any other part of Lakewood.
Thats NOT what I voted for when I voted for Phase 1, which was the biggest bite out of my wallet.

Dee

You and I are in complete agreement with the first paragraph. I have said this time and time again. I voted for the board we have now to run the schools, not to try to pass the buck on tough decisions to "committees" that to my knowledge have little or no knowledge of the topic at hand.

I commend everyone for being there, giving their time, and taking one for the team, but the fact remains that in my world things designed by committee are usually so compromised they rarely fill anyone's needs or dreams.

To me this was like asking the public on how or who to choose for Superintendent. Joe Madak had made himself available for discussion last year early in the year. His reason for wanting to come back was real, and honest, we had history all of it pretty good. We certainly owed it to the schools to look around, but did we need the public telling them what to look for?

This city seems to be obsessed with committees. The committee to decide we needed to find downtown, then a committee to decide how to find downtown, then a committee to decide what the way finding needed to be, and finally a huge committee to decide color. All they needed to do was ask the psychic artist who did the cartoon map of downtown last year. After all it would appear he knew all along!

At some point we need elected officials to do what they were elected to do, and take responsibility for those actions. This is one reason I am growing with respect for Ed FitzGerald every day. He and his administration take responsibility for their actions.

Dee this whole program has been mishandled if you ask me. There should not have been three phases, as we almost lost the second vote which would have been a nightmare, and now we border on civil war or class war as you put it for the third.

Now the tough subject. Talking about Kaufman, Lakewood, Garbage, Signs, the LO, the whatever. When did Lakewood decide to crawl back into the dark back rooms and hallways of life? It NEVER hurts to talk about things. It never hurts to look back. It never hurts to look forward. Why so many elected and civic leaders now fear interaction with voters and non-voters is absurd. The conversations are going on anyway.

While some have said correctly, "the decision will not be made on the Deck." and it will not. However there will be a discussion, and the decision will be judged on the Deck, other sites, bars, backyards, school yards, PTAs, wherever and whenever Lakewoodites are allowed or encouraged to talk. That is a good thing. Also any and all ways to get thoughts, opinions and god forbid ideas to any of the many steering committees for whatever should also be used as well.

After all it is the 21st Century.



FWIW

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Jim O'Bryan wrote:I commend everyone for being there, giving their time, and taking one for the team, but the fact remains that in my world things designed by committee are usually so compromised they rarely fill anyone's needs or dreams.

To me this was like asking the public on how or who to choose for Superintendent. Joe Madak had made himself available for discussion last year early in the year. His reason for wanting to come back was real, and honest, we had history all of it pretty good. We certainly owed it to the schools to look around, but did we need the public telling them what to look for?

This city seems to be obsessed with committees. The committee to decide we needed to find downtown, then a committee to decide how to find downtown, then a committee to decide what the way finding needed to be, and finally a huge committee to decide color. All they needed to do was ask the psychic artist who did the cartoon map of downtown last year. After all it would appear he knew all along!

At some point we need elected officials to do what they were elected to do, and take responsibility for those actions. This is one reason I am growing with respect for Ed FitzGerald every day. He and his administration take responsibility for their actions.

Dee this whole program has been mishandled if you ask me. There should not have been three phases, as we almost lost the second vote which would have been a nightmare, and now we border on civil war or class war as you put it for the third.

Now the tough subject. Talking about Kaufman, Lakewood, Garbage, Signs, the LO, the whatever. When did Lakewood decide to crawl back into the dark back rooms and hallways of life? It NEVER hurts to talk about things. It never hurts to look back. It never hurts to look forward. Why so many elected and civic leaders now fear interaction with voters and non-voters is absurd. The conversations are going on anyway.

While some have said correctly, "the decision will not be made on the Deck." and it will not. However there will be a discussion, and the decision will be judged on the Deck, other sites, bars, backyards, school yards, PTAs, wherever and whenever Lakewoodites are allowed or encouraged to talk. That is a good thing. Also any and all ways to get thoughts, opinions and god forbid ideas to any of the many steering committees for whatever should also be used as well.

After all it is the 21st Century.



FWIW

.

Jim, PLEASE! Be honest. If the BOE had not included the citizens in the discussion and exploration you and your friends on the deck would have been all over it. This is a no win for all elected officials. if they make decisions based on information they have, they are wrong to not discuss it with the residents. If they ask the residents for input they are chided for not being able to make a decision.

As a member of the committee I find it insulting to read your comments. I didn't really hear any complaining when the 50 year committee met and made suggestions to the board. Maybe I wasn't paying attention then. Well, I am paying attention now.

The BOE will make a decision based on the information it receives from the committee. That committee has reached out to the residents of Lakewood to find out what issues matter most to them when deciding what to do about the 2 or 3 elementary issue. We now have that information from the people who bothered to attend the forum.

The committee will now review that along with FACTS about possible sites to come up with well reasoned, informed and intelligent suggestions for the BOE. And before we make any recommendations to the BOE we will once again ask the citizens to join us in reviewing the information we've discovered and weigh in.

After that recommendations will be made to the board at which time THEY will make a decision.

So maybe, just maybe, no one from the city or the BOE have come on the deck because they have nothing to say just yet. Nothing except this - the committee is doing their work and we (the BOE) have no information to share until we receive their report.

Now is that really so hard to understand?

Diane Helbig wrote:
Jim, PLEASE! Be honest. If the BOE had not included the citizens in the discussion and exploration you and your friends on the deck would have been all over it. This is a no win for all elected officials. if they make decisions based on information they have, they are wrong to not discuss it with the residents. If they ask the residents for input they are chided for not being able to make a decision.

As a member of the committee I find it insulting to read your comments. I didn't really hear any complaining when the 50 year committee met and made suggestions to the board. Maybe I wasn't paying attention then. Well, I am paying attention now.

The BOE will make a decision based on the information it receives from the committee. That committee has reached out to the residents of Lakewood to find out what issues matter most to them when deciding what to do about the 2 or 3 elementary issue. We now have that information from the people who bothered to attend the forum.

The committee will now review that along with FACTS about possible sites to come up with well reasoned, informed and intelligent suggestions for the BOE. And before we make any recommendations to the BOE we will once again ask the citizens to join us in reviewing the information we've discovered and weigh in.

After that recommendations will be made to the board at which time THEY will make a decision.

So maybe, just maybe, no one from the city or the BOE have come on the deck because they have nothing to say just yet. Nothing except this - the committee is doing their work and we (the BOE) have no information to share until we receive their report.

Now is that really so hard to understand?

Diane

I am being as honest as I know how. So you too let's be honest. No matter what any elected official or anyone that steps up says or does it is scrutinized, dissected and found right or wrong by all sorts of people. That is what a democracy is all about.

This is always my big laugh when speaking with government, elected and civic officials. As I love to tell the story when speaking with the mayor of Westlake about the Westlake Observer. He said "I am not sure that I like it when people can critique me or talk about me." I laughed and pointed out that at every bar, gathering place, park, backyard fence, wherever they are talking about you, arguing about you, and attacking you. With the Observer, at least you know who they are and have the rare opportunity to defend yourself. He agreed, it would be nice.

If you run for office or step into the light, get used to the heat and get used to explaining yourself. What online forums offer is a chance to set the record straight. And it would seem that those that cannot set the record straight run for the shadows, the cover, the back rooms, etc.

For the record, my "friends"* on the Deck have tried to get me fired four times, and have offered to sue me three times. EVERYTIME, I stood here, made my case, cleared the perception or didn't, but it was fair and it was open. I can ask for nothing more than that.

*friends - This is the sickest term to be misused, ever, and it plays to the weak minded shadows of the civic phantoms. One politician tells me he has 450 "friends" another tells me, 543 "friends" another civic groups tells me they are up to 325 "friends." Then they all in the same breath tell me they can block their "friends" without them even knowing! And that they do not have the time or even care about reading all of their friends updates! Friends?

For the record in my book, A friend will bail you out of jail at 3am without asking why or how much. The rest are acquaintances of varying levels. I have about 4 friends on the Deck.

Diane, the conversation happens in public, on the phone, in private, over dinner, but it is the forums, not the blogs, or facebook, or twitter that at least allow a person to jump in, and defend themselves, and their ideas.

It is the 21st Century.




.

Friends?

"Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer."

Sun-tzu.



Back to the banjo.

What I am trying to get across is that, I can come up with five different "ideas" before I take my morning shower and I bet if I post them here I can get at least a couple of others to tell me its a great idea and we should go for it.
But there not all valid and there not all worth taking up taxpayer money chasing them.

My question remains, when all is said and done, of the five BOE members, the mayhor, and the 7 council members, is anyone taking this thing seriously? If they are not I will drop the subject. If they are I will work to defeat it.

I dont care about Westlake or signs.