Does anyone have any insight?

[kate e parker]

the old "i know" seems to be a recurring theme of this thread.

i don't care how many times you say "i know", i don't really think that you do know.

[kate e parker]

so photoshopped

HAHA!

[Jim O'Bryan]

Opinion until you can prove it. Without admitting sources you simply cannot prove anything. Your dad is wise, I'm sure he has sources. You are wise, but it is hard to prove without sources. I do not mean this in a negative manner.

I heard that a comet will hit the Earth in 2047, but will cause little harm. Could happen, will make me appear wise, but I do not have a source. Or do I have a source, could be NASA, but I cannot tell anyone. Does this make me wise if it happens, inaccurate and wrong if it does not happen, or unreliable because I do not have a source? Or...did I hear it from a concession stand worker/manager at the Glenn Research Center Cafeteria? Either way, you heard it from me first.

Glad to hear the fireworks went well.

Corey

Corey

The very nature of this project since day one has been news and opinion.

Again, I am just curious. You are saying I shouldn't report that an employee/manager
of a business should then be grilled and forced to make proof. Because they mentioned
a patio? Really, think of the many things we have spoken of. Look at your project, was I
not to believe you when you first told me of the vision that became the best patio/windows
in town?

Think about how many times that plan was changed and refined and changed and refined.

I remember one meeting where the assigned "architect" was basically thrown out and told
not to come back. Does that make everything from a previous meeting a lie, or changed?

Again QSL will certainly have the top 3 wings in town, and a top ten burger. I have said
that since day one. The patio "lie" oh the horror, they do have a patio, and the real question
should be is how much of that project is the city underwriting, paying for, as the sidewalk
is what used to be public parking and public sidewalk.

But if we must focus on this "lie" about a patio. I am here to answer he questions and
accusations, and explain my thoughts and reasoning.

My dog did not steal my keyboard and send that post.

.

.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Kate


Not retouched in Adobe Photoshop


Retouched in Adobe Photoshop.


.

[Corey Rossen]

Opinion until you can prove it. Without admitting sources you simply cannot prove anything. Your dad is wise, I'm sure he has sources. You are wise, but it is hard to prove without sources. I do not mean this in a negative manner.

I heard that a comet will hit the Earth in 2047, but will cause little harm. Could happen, will make me appear wise, but I do not have a source. Or do I have a source, could be NASA, but I cannot tell anyone. Does this make me wise if it happens, inaccurate and wrong if it does not happen, or unreliable because I do not have a source? Or...did I hear it from a concession stand worker/manager at the Glenn Research Center Cafeteria? Either way, you heard it from me first.

Glad to hear the fireworks went well.

Corey

Corey

The very nature of this project since day one has been news and opinion.

Again, I am just curious. You are saying I shouldn't report that an employee/manager
of a business should then be grilled and forced to make proof. Because they mentioned
a patio? Really, think of the many things we have spoken of. Look at your project, was I
not to believe you when you first told me of the vision that became the best patio/windows
in town?

Think about how many times that plan was changed and refined and changed and refined.

I remember one meeting where the assigned "architect" was basically thrown out and told
not to come back. Does that make everything from a previous meeting a lie, or changed?

Again QSL will certainly have the top 3 wings in town, and a top ten burger. I have said
that since day one. The patio "lie" oh the horror, they do have a patio, and the real question
should be is how much of that project is the city underwriting, paying for, as the sidewalk
is what used to be public parking and public sidewalk.

But if we must focus on this "lie" about a patio. I am here to answer he questions and
accusations, and explain my thoughts and reasoning.

My dog did not steal my keyboard and send that post.

.

.

In the patio case, it may have been best to lead with "according to the Amherst bartender/manager..." that way readers can have a sense of the source and a better vision of your view. I'm sure the bartender/manager would not be considered a protected "source."

I am not accusing you of lying, but considering the source and what you did with the information, it could have met with better refrain.

Corey

[Jim O'Bryan]

.

In the patio case, it may have been best to lead with "according to the Amherst bartender/manager..." that way readers can have a sense of the source and a better vision of your view. I'm sure the bartender/manager would not be considered a protected "source."

I am not accusing you of lying, but considering the source and what you did with the information, it could have met with better refrain.

Corey[/quote]

Corey

In this case, it might need to be a protected source. Damn, I thought it was light banter over wings. Not a
smoke screen to cover up and take eyes off of city hall's serious issues, that no one really seems to care more
about than if the patio is in the front or in the back. Hell, people do not even care how much we are paying
into that patio, more than a mistake by me on front or back. I still think a back patio will be coming, or a
way to use the lot for promotions, which would only make sense as it is a car/bike place.

Met with refrain? Today you might be right. I never expected it to be more important than the closing
of parks, or the inability by a council member to be forthcoming on many issues.

But if you are willing to hold City Hall and other Civic leaders to the same standards as me, then I will
certainly be more careful in the future.

.

[Corey Rossen]

Corey

The very nature of this project since day one has been news and opinion.

This may be where people get lost in your posts. You combine both and it makes your news less viable and reliable and your opinions more factual. It is the nature of a media and its relationship with its audience.
Again, I am just curious. You are saying I shouldn't report that an employee/manager
of a business should then be grilled and forced to make proof. Because they mentioned
a patio?

Yes, if you are using it as a source and attack on City Hall, the Park policies, etc. Your post about the back patio was to cause outrage, which you later say should be outrage against Big Brother. Originally, I thought you were drumming up rage for the neighbors behind QS&L about noise,etc.

Really, think of the many things we have spoken of. Look at your project, was I
not to believe you when you first told me of the vision that became the best patio/windows
in town?
The difference on this is that you could quote me - I am the dreamer, designer and planner of the project. If I had a certified degree in my designs, I would have also been the architect. That makes me a viable source that you could have quoted. I was not a bartender/manager talking over wings. You tell me if you see the difference.

Think about how many times that plan was changed and refined and changed and refined.
Do you think the Lakewood QS&L was changed because the bartender/manager had a new vision?

I remember one meeting where the assigned "architect" was basically thrown out and told
not to come back. Does that make everything from a previous meeting a lie, or changed?
The architect that was removed did not draw to my vision, so the architect's plans were never in fact the actual plans. The architect is a very nice person, we just could not come to terms on his pencil meeting my dreams. So, technically, nothing was changed because no "official" drawings existed = not a lie, or n/a.
Again QSL will certainly have the top 3 wings in town, and a top ten burger. I have said
that since day one.
The patio "lie" oh the horror, they do have a patio,
Now you are slighting your post and the reaction you were going for. You wanted outrage and now you are surprised you got it?
and the real question
should be is how much of that project is the city underwriting, paying for, as the sidewalk
is what used to be public parking and public sidewalk.
Then start by saying, "the real question I am asking is..." in the first place.

But if we must focus on this "lie" about a patio. I am here to answer he questions and
accusations, and explain my thoughts and reasoning.
Refer to previous post.

My dog did not steal my keyboard and send that post.

I have heard that your dog is very talented, though.

.

.[/quote]

[Corey Rossen]

But if you are willing to hold City Hall and other Civic leaders to the same standards as me, then I will
certainly be more careful in the future.

.

I think this is a lot of what people on the Deck are asking for - careful journalism, reporting, news, sources, refrain, etc - from all sides. Opinions without sources are opinions. Theories with proof are theories. A hypothesis without data is... Doughnuts without a hole are a danish.

Corey

[Jim O'Bryan]

Corey

Outrage, no, critical thought yes.

Again, as I have said for years, I go to Quaker Steak and Lube, have done so for years.

Did I question how they fit in Downtown Lakewood? You bet. I also mentioned I had been to Quaker Steak
and Lubes from the size of a small trailer, to the original in PA. Did I question the outcome in a city that
has 285 places to get prepared(warmed food) well yes. I am sure you are wondering the impact on both
the store and the best patio/window in DowntowN Lakewood. Places the size of Deegan's, Quaker Steak and Lube,
Around the Corner, need to be pretty damned filled to break even. I think they count on 2 table turn at lunch, and
three table turn from 4pm - 8pm. Where are those customers coming from? And make no mistake, with their food, and
their prices, they should do OK in this city.

On the Park front, it does seem more than odd to me that we close down two parks early, right next
to commercial places that need parking. And I wonder as I drive by, who is paying for the
front patio, (Loan? Good idea, us paying or abatements, bad idea), and the upgrades to the driveways on a park
we just decided to close early. My point since day one on the park was it was closed for lies, laziness, and
through a council that was too overworked, or too lazy to even walk into the park or pick up a phone and check
out what I told them was happening.

Again, noise? Have you ever been at a Quaker Steak and Lube at closing on bike night? Some would call it
noise, I think it is music. However a tad louder than basketball.

Corey, if I had a brother I would want him to be just like you.

Well at least the same height.

.

[Corey Rossen]

Again, noise? Have you ever been at a Quaker Steak and Lube at closing on bike night? Some would call it
noise, I think it is music. However a tad louder than basketball.

Many days and night at QS&L. In fact, I was there when Valley View opened (behind the scenes during construction was awesome to say the least). The company I worked for at the time (Miller Brewing Company) sponsored the first years of Bike Night's in Valley View. I love the event, great time, great music (band & muffler), great people, excellant motor scenery. Little known fact: QS&L Valley View is the only bar I have ever taken any of my children into (actually, it was my oldest and she was less than a year old, and we were there to meet up with friends at a Bike Night. To be honest, we were there less than 10 minutes as I felt wrong having my baby in a bar.)

Corey, if I had a brother I would want him to be just like you.

Well at least the same height.
My height can be desceptive as the glare from my forehead throws people off in terms of my actual height. Would you want him to have as shiny of a head as I have? I save money on shampoo but Turtle Wax costs a fortune.

.

[Jim O'Bryan]

But if you are willing to hold City Hall and other Civic leaders to the same standards as me, then I will
certainly be more careful in the future.

.

I think this is a lot of what people on the Deck are asking for - careful journalism, reporting, news, sources, refrain, etc - from all sides. Opinions without sources are opinions. Theories with proof are theories. A hypothesis without data is... Doughnuts without a hole are a danish.

Corey

Corey

It is not the nature of the beast. HELL look at the posts you have put on this site you are demanding
"careful journalism, reporting, news, sources, refrain, etc - from all sides"

Really?

Here were the ideas that started this.*
1) Real names - first in the country to demand it.
2) A place to vet both rumors and news. Remember this was after a long period of time where both city
hall, civic groups and the school board were not just forthcoming, but lying and covering up to the detriment
of both residents and business.
3) There had been a huge push to regionalize libraries and schools, to look at what the effects would be and discuss them
4) To lay bare the psyche of a community on levels never before exposed to understand, crime, development,
health, intellect etc.
5) To help put forward the 32 points of the Visionary Alignment so that a community could understand and
discuss the ideas and how they affect them and the community on the whole.
6) With the promise of the school board and city halls to engage in open dialogues as long as REAL NAMES WERE ENFORCED.
7) To provide a no cost service to the city, the schools, and the library in helping them get out their
information without editing or spin from within the article. Though, they would allow comment and would answer.

Corey, this project was based on passion and bias. "Real Media" claims no bias, nothing
could be farther from the truth. When this project was started, the media had become so
servile to government it was crazy. The Sun and PD never asked tough questions, they
wanted the $$$$$ and access. It is James Madison who warns us that, "The most
successful reporters are the ones that are most servile to the government." We never
wanted that. At the same time we have found that there is often more truth in rumor than
in the official story.

Corey, the reason we started other papers, is to insure that the Lakewood Observer would never be servile to
anyone but the residents, and the businesses and non-profits in this city. As you know, the Observer has
never been run as a money maker, but a service to the community. It is more important to everyone at the
Observer that you can get out information about the Jordan Foundation for FREE, than me worrying about
"monetizing the news" as other media outlets in Lakewood believe.

I think this is a lot of what people on the Deck are asking for - careful journalism, reporting, news, sources, refrain, etc - from all sides. Opinions without sources are opinions. Theories with proof are theories. A hypothesis without data is... Doughnuts without a hole are a danish.

Finally, if that is what people want, then they should bring it an up the game. The Lakewood Observer and the
Deck is blank until you do something. When you put out your opinion like above, it becomes your Danish.
I am not going to ask you who are all the people you talk of? It doesn't matter. what matters is that you Corey
Rossen felt strongly enough about it that you posted it. And that with my response and the response of others
adds to both this project, the community, and helps us all better understand the psyche of the community.

This is exactly what this project is about.

The Discussion, the understanding, the observations.

It is not about carpetbagging multinational corporations monetizing local news for their own pocket and to
take it out of the city. Hell if you are into that, there are a bunch of those out there, go use a fake name and
have at it! But it will never help a community understand itself and become whole.

* The actual documents on the formation and much of the thought process are online and
in Ken's new book, "Captain Poetry's Sucker Punch - A Guide to the Homeric Punkhole 1980-2012."

.

[Corey Rossen]

But if you are willing to hold City Hall and other Civic leaders to the same standards as me, then I will
certainly be more careful in the future.

.

I think this is a lot of what people on the Deck are asking for - careful journalism, reporting, news, sources, refrain, etc - from all sides. Opinions without sources are opinions. Theories with proof are theories. A hypothesis without data is... Doughnuts without a hole are a danish.

Corey

Corey

It is not the nature of the beast. HELL look at the posts you have put on this site you are demanding
"careful journalism, reporting, news, sources, refrain, etc - from all sides"

Really?

Here were the ideas that started this.*
1) Real names - first in the country to demand it.
2) A place to vet both rumors and news. Remember this was after a long period of time where both city
hall, civic groups and the school board were not just forthcoming, but lying and covering up to the detriment
of both residents and business.
3) There had been a huge push to regionalize libraries and schools, to look at what the effects would be and discuss them
4) To lay bare the psyche of a community on levels never before exposed to understand, crime, development,
health, intellect etc.
5) To help put forward the 32 points of the Visionary Alignment so that a community could understand and
discuss the ideas and how they affect them and the community on the whole.
6) With the promise of the school board and city halls to engage in open dialogues as long as REAL NAMES WERE ENFORCED.
7) To provide a no cost service to the city, the schools, and the library in helping them get out their
information without editing or spin from within the article. Though, they would allow comment and would answer.

Corey, this project was based on passion and bias. "Real Media" claims no bias, nothing
could be farther from the truth. When this project was started, the media had become so
servile to government it was crazy. The Sun and PD never asked tough questions, they
wanted the $$$$$ and access. It is James Madison who warns us that, "The most
successful reporters are the ones that are most servile to the government." We never
wanted that. At the same time we have found that there is often more truth in rumor than
in the official story.

Corey, the reason we started other papers, is to insure that the Lakewood Observer would never be servile to
anyone but the residents, and the businesses and non-profits in this city. As you know, the Observer has
never been run as a money maker, but a service to the community. It is more important to everyone at the
Observer that you can get out information about the Jordan Foundation for FREE, than me worrying about
"monetizing the news" as other media outlets in Lakewood believe.

I think this is a lot of what people on the Deck are asking for - careful journalism, reporting, news, sources, refrain, etc - from all sides. Opinions without sources are opinions. Theories with proof are theories. A hypothesis without data is... Doughnuts without a hole are a danish.

Finally, if that is what people want, then they should bring it an up the game. The Lakewood Observer and the
Deck is blank until you do something. When you put out your opinion like above, it becomes your Danish.
I am not going to ask you who are all the people you talk of? It doesn't matter. what matters is that you Corey
Rossen felt strongly enough about it that you posted it. And that with my response and the response of others
adds to both this project, the community, and helps us all better understand the psyche of the community.

This is exactly what this project is about.

The Discussion, the understanding, the observations.

It is not about carpetbagging multinational corporations monetizing local news for their own pocket and to
take it out of the city. Hell if you are into that, there are a bunch of those out there, go use a fake name and
have at it! But it will never help a community understand itself and become whole.

* The actual documents on the formation and much of the thought process are online and
in Ken's new book, "Captain Poetry's Sucker Punch - A Guide to the Homeric Punkhole 1980-2012."

.

I had a lengthy response to this but stepped away from the computer and my time expired. I will address it again later.

Corey

[Mike Zannoni]

1. I would like to walk in Kaufman Park until 11 PM and not have that be illegal.
2. I would like to photograph in Kaufman Park until 11 PM and not have that be illegal.
3. I would like to converse with one or more others in Kaufman Park until 11 PM and not have that be illegal.
4. I would like to eat take out food until 11 PM in Kaufman Park and not have that be illegal.
5. I would like to sit by myself and think in Kaufman Park until 11 PM and not have that be illegal.
6. I would like to be able to go to Kaufman Park until 11 PM just to get out of my home when necessary and not have that be illegal.
7. I would like to be able to listen to music with headphones at Kaufman Park until 11 PM and not have that be illegal.
8. I would like to smoke a cigarette in Kaufman Park until 11 PM and not have that be illegal.
9. I would like for Lakewood Police to drive by every once in a while between sundown and 11 PM to make its presence known and look to for anything that looks like drug activity, drinking of alcohol and/or excessive noise making.
10. I would NOT like ever to receive any special positive treatment, regardless of the hour, on the part of the police using any so-called "legal tools": because I'm middle aged, dressed and groomed professionally, am light skinned, wear glasses and look studious, am well-spoken or because my ID shows I live in Lakewood.
11. I would NOT like ever to receive any special negative treatment, regardless of the hour, on the part of the police using any so-called "legal tools": because I look young, have very long hair, have greasy hair, am wearing ripped jeans and a t-shirt, am a smoker, appear to be unshaven with ungroomed beard and mustache, seem not to be doing anything productive whatsoever, forgot to wear a belt, am with a group, don't have my ID or use street or youth slang.
12. I would like very much to be promptly handcuffed and arrested, regardless of the hour, if I am actually harming anybody or their property.
13. I would like to simply asked by police to leave if I'm truly causing any kind of disturbance whatsoever to others enjoying the park or living nearby.

[marklingm]

Well said, Mike. Well said ...



... I also want patios and bike nights at Lakewood's QSL ...

[Gary Rice]

Actually, on this 'Deck, I very much HAVE felt, at times, like I was playing the banjo while Rome was burning.

Jimmy, some day I'll show you a card that I received from Pete Seeger, and the theme pictured on it, believe it or not, was very similar to your own collage. The cartoon on that card shows Pete strumming his banjo while coming down the road, just ahead of a bunch of Apocalyptic oncoming horsemen.

So, in truth, I am really flattered by your juxtaposition.

I must be doing something right.

Better get back to that banjo...