LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

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Scott Meeson
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Scott Meeson »

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
Rhonda loje wrote:So does that mean we will never know the truth?

Rhonda


No it doesn't mean that.

Thursday is merely the announcement aloud, it has been out since Friday afternoon. The
Clinic delivered it to the Mayor and Board of Trustees. It is only fair to allow the Board to
read the package, and contemplate what will be said and what they can do. This is not a
light switch, simply on and off.

.


I'm reminded of a quote from the movie "Absence of Malice."

James A. Wells, Assistant U.S. Attorney General: You had a leak? You call what's goin' on around here a leak? Boy, the last time there was a leak like this, Noah built hisself a boat.

:wink:

Scott
If you would understand anything, observe its beginning and its development.
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Bill Call
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Bill Call »

Who will be next?



Admissions: 8,647
Inpatient surgeries: 2,131
Outpatient visits: 146,381
Emergency room visits: 35,180
Births: 680
Number of Beds: 250


How does that compare with Lutheran Hospital:

Admissions: 7,111
Inpatient surgeries: 1,888
Outpatient visits: 60,326
Emergency room visits: 26,045
Births: 0
Number of Beds: 198


How does that compare with Euclid Hospital:

Admissions: 8,242
Inpatient surgeries: 2,373
Outpatient visits: 93,441
Emergency room visits: 36,992
Births: 0
Number of Beds: 231

How does that compare with South Pointe Hospital:

Admissions: 7,452
Inpatient surgeries: 2,645
Outpatient visits: 122,420
Emergency room visits: 39,289
Births: 0
Number of Beds: 173
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by David Lay »

Just saw this from WKYC's health reporter Monica Robins:

Sources: Lakewood Hospital will NOT close but will eventually change to meet community needs. #WKYC


Also:

City and Clinic to hold press conference on future of Lkwd Hospital today 10am #WKYC
New Website/Blog: dlayphoto.com
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

David Lay wrote:Just saw this from WKYC's health reporter Monica Robins:

Sources: Lakewood Hospital will NOT close but will eventually change to meet community needs. #WKYC


Also:

City and Clinic to hold press conference on future of Lkwd Hospital today 10am #WKYC


David

This is spin, as an Observer you should know not to listen to spin.

.
Jim O'Bryan
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Corey Rossen
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Corey Rossen »

David Lay wrote:Just saw this from WKYC's health reporter Monica Robins:

Sources: Lakewood Hospital will NOT close but will eventually change to meet community needs. #WKYC


Also:

City and Clinic to hold press conference on future of Lkwd Hospital today 10am #WKYC

My second grade son is on a field trip at WKYC today, when he gets back I will let you know the future status of the hospital and the City of Lakewood.

Corey
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

It seems we are trying the scattered approach, hundreds of innuendos, and hints. But not
much in the ways of actual ummmmmph, outside of I hate the Clinic, I hate the city.

Let me give you a hint on this. This is very much another McDonald's moment. Because of
some prodding, The Clinic has come up with an offer. There are no other offers out there.

I have spent hundreds of hours with professionals in healthcare, legal, non-profits, etc. I
have read over all the paper and waded through it with them. I have spoken with Council
members, well those not lying about this, and members of the Board and the Foundation.

Do we take the offer, or sue? This is your choice.

.
Jim O'Bryan
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Bill Call wrote:
Jim O'Bryan wrote:
The Crain communication article. "The Clinic's vision The city and the Lakewood Hospital
Association insist their soul-searching over the hospital's future wasn't at the Clinic's urging."

The only way I can read that is, the Clinic was prepared to continue on, and the City knew it.




That's worth thinking about. Can it be it really is all about looting the treasury? My words not yours but that is the implication.

I guess it is possible someone at City Hall thinks some kind of "new development" is better than access to medical care and 1,100 jobs. I asked if anyone is that clever. Is the better question: Is anyone that stupid?

I can't think of one development project that would be worth the loss of a first class medical facility.

If they have such a grand idea why didn't they buy the Lakewood Center building when it went into foreclosure? I think if sold for under $5 million.


Bill

I hate defending the people that caused this debacle, funny how often those words are
associated with a couple of these folks. One it rolls off his tongue like "good morning."

I believe, and this is my opinion, that some were looking out for Lakewood's future, some saw a goldmine of economic development money they could attach themselves to, as they have all too often in the past in this town. Then, as I have reported for nearly a decade, they will come up short, screw the thing up, and then give each other awards and move on to the next pile of loot, or as some have said, retire in Pittsburgh or Cape Cod.

Like I said, we have a couple groups with well-meaning people but some on the list are more than suspect, and they tend to be the bullies of the pack. One might wonder how over 40 people together get a package like this, and come to unanimous agreement in under 36 hours? When you speak with them, they all say the same thing in a kind of Stepford wife moment: "Healthcare is changing."

I believe they had a timelime, unveiling their secret master plan in June. By then, they would have the crisis team in place. The "Active Living Task Force" would come back with their faux study of needing a rec center. If you speak to the members it was heavily filled with rec center wanters. Which is not illegal. Then would come the announcement of the Hospital leaving, which one of the parties was ready to make last fall, so as to be honest with the people of Lakewood. The Mayor would roll out this miracle cure for losing the hospital: A new rec center, no rec center natatorium*, no-- wellness center, no-- health center, no-- active living hub.... City Council would have passed the charter amendment allowing them to close down the Hospital Board, freeing Lakewood Hospital Foundation to repurpose and reform themselves with a vote of the majority to "health and/or economic development" the mayor's words, you have the perfect storm. $100+ million in the bank, and a task force saying the people demand a rec center, and 4.1 acres for more economic development in the now empty DowntowN area, with a repurposed Foundation doling out our $100 million to friends and pet projects while taking Cleveland Foundation-style salaries for doing it.

But what do I know? I have only been talking about this, well, since we started the paper.

And this latest scheme for about two years.

Bill you went public after you noticed a fall off in services and you had to go to Westlake
for tests that were offered here years ago.

Matt Markling went public LOUDLY after hearing the Mayor and Dru Siley went to the School Board and made the presentation for a rec center and the tax raise. The now infamous Michael P. Summers Rec Center and Natatorium*. However the tax raise proposed was not to build the Center, but to make up for lost taxes, as they knew their plan would not create taxes just a rec center needing huge sums of cash to stay afloat.

I went public after rumors of over 2 years came together "with the timeline." If you go back and look at all of Bill Call's ranting and ravings about the hospital leaving, you will see me ask again and again about the timelime. When the Cleveland Clinic closed Huron Road, there was a timeline.

I broke the story after talking with two elected officials about the now solid rumors coming out, and asked them both if they had heard anything. Both said they had heard nothing from the board, which alarmed me. It alarmed me even more when I found out that both of them were ON the board. One of the many rumors around this was that the Clinic was no longer returning Mayor Summers calls. Fearing we were going to lose our largest employer, I went public.

Immediately, two people on the Board, and elected officials came forward in a much larger media outlet, which was stupid, to lie and try to cover up and dismiss the story they knew to be true, as lies and not true.

From that time on, I have had many friends called by some of the players in this begging them to tell me to take down the post, take back my words and tell everyone I was lying. Well I was not. I have had colleagues bullied, I have had advertisers called, and many of my "friends" stop talking to me because I am a troublemaker.

And now we get to the real sad part of all of this. The Crisis Management, the cover up, and the nasty emails, and peer pressure that has made this town a living hell at times. Good people being forced to keep quiet because their son or daughter plays soccer, or mom is friends with so and so and the sewing group doesn't want to lose whatever. So you end up with three "wackos" who speak freely because they will not give in to the intimidation and peer pressures other feel, talking openly, while everyone has had their voices shuttered.

OPINION - Someone climbed on the bus of good hard-working Lakewood Citizens and fed them some BS from BS consultants, and explained to those on the Board that "Health Care is changing!" and got into the driver's seat and hijacked them all.

FACT - The hospital is leaving.

FACT - We are losing 1,100 jobs, worst case. Best case, 800.

FACT - The Cleveland Clinic has offered $82 million to the Board, Foundation, City.

FACT - If $82 million is coming to the City it should not be in the hands of a private board that is not accountable to the citizens of Lakewood.

FACT - We have 90 days to act on it.

FACT - We need to know how the hell this happened, and who threw the city and the Clinic under the bus for a handful of economic magic beans to play with in DowntowN. But not right now. We have bigger issues right now and a very-- some might say intentionally--short period of time to work them out.

OPINION - Put the funds in a city account, that offers minimum risk, while people who did not cause us to lose the hospital try to figure out WHAT IS BEST FOR THE COMMUNITY not THEMSELVES. Free up Cleveland Clinic from spending the $34 million on a new building, and get them to commit to working with/overseeing a new 2026 version of a community hospital, basically a staging area for locals to deal with medical issues while options are being explored. A hybrid hospital/recovery/hospice place to ease the burden on locals from having to drive, or get someone to drive them, the 12 minutes to Avon.

The ways hospitals get money are complicated, if we could get the Clinic to oversee this new version of a Community Hospital there could be a possibility of getting Tier 1 or Tier 2 status. Without this, a hospital will not survive, that I am pretty sure of. The way hospitals get paid, and where insured people can go is pretty complex. But a Tier 2 hospital gets less for the same operation than a Tier 1 hospital. Then you get into where your insurers will allow you to go, and finally all hospitals insure their own, and most of the municipalities they are in. This is a financial boost to the city, but it also dries up the number of patients you have access to. In Cuyahoga County, MED CITY, you take away the hospital workers, the doctors and their staff, the city workers and teachers, you end up with a very, very small pool of walk-ins. We would need to be Tier 1, or Tier 2 at the very least to make this work.

But what the hell do I know about healthcare, finances, or the city I blindly love?

* Natatorium was added to make it sound even more ridiculous than it did at the meeting.
Love rec Centers or hate them, no one can afford them. They are black holes in a city's
budget. One can argue that cities are not supposed to make money, which is true but they can't lose money. If Solon can't afford theirs, how does Lakewood afford one after losing 1,100 high paying medical jobs? This is why it sounds so ridiculous.
Jim O'Bryan
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"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

The chart from today's paper.

Image

.
Jim O'Bryan
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Bill Call
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Bill Call »

Nice graphs.

When the Clinic completes its move from Lakewood to Avon the City of Lakewood will lose hundreds of millions in economic activity. We are being told that this is a wonderful thing.

Can someone from City Hall or from the Foundation or the Hospital board explain why they did nothing to defend the hospital and the City of Lakewood?
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Bill Call wrote:Nice graphs.

When the Clinic completes its move from Lakewood to Avon the City of Lakewood will lose hundreds of millions in economic activity. We are being told that this is a wonderful thing.

Can someone from City Hall or from the Foundation or the Hospital board explain why they did nothing to defend the hospital and the City of Lakewood?


Bill, not to argue every point.

BUT

It is hard to ask the City and Foundation to defend something they helped to cause.

Also, Lakewood Hospital is not being moved to Avon. It was moved to Fairview when
City Hall said no to them building it here in Lakewood in 1995.

Employees can take jobs in Avon, but that is far different from them moving Lakewood
to Avon.

Just trying to keep it all straight.


.
Jim O'Bryan
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"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
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Bill Call
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Bill Call »

Jim O'Bryan wrote:It is hard to ask the City and Foundation to defend something they helped to cause.

Also, Lakewood Hospital is not being moved to Avon. It was moved to Fairview when
City Hall said no to them building it here in Lakewood in 1995.



From page 9 of the Subsidium Report:

"Lakewood Hospital's primary service are (4 zip codes) generates 25,000 admissions per year to area hospitals (we are a valuable market)."


"New Avon Hospital will likely cannibalize significant inpatient volumes from LKH."

Just from the little I have seen in the report it seems that the Lakewood Hospital Foundation wasn't all that interested in saving the Hospital.

Also from the report:

".....requires $90 million + for hospital building to be viable for the next 20 years"

Since we are asked to believe that the Clinic is going to invest $125 million in Lakewood after the hospital closes why couldn't the Foundation ask the Clinic to invest $90 million to save the Hospital?

"Increasing percentage of Lakewood residents seeking health care outside of Lakewood (48% go elsewhere).

That's interesting. If you owned a grocery store in Lakewood and found out that 48% of your potential customers in Lakewood shopped for groceries outside of Lakewood would you:

1. Find out how to attract all of those potential customers?

or

2. Announce that all is lost and the only thing you can think to do is close the doors?

If you are the Lakewood Hospital Foundation you choose number 2. pun intended
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Bill Call wrote:
Jim O'Bryan wrote:It is hard to ask the City and Foundation to defend something they helped to cause.

Also, Lakewood Hospital is not being moved to Avon. It was moved to Fairview when
City Hall said no to them building it here in Lakewood in 1995.



From page 9 of the Subsidium Report:

"Lakewood Hospital's primary service are (4 zip codes) generates 25,000 admissions per year to area hospitals (we are a valuable market)."


"New Avon Hospital will likely cannibalize significant inpatient volumes from LKH."

Just from the little I have seen in the report it seems that the Lakewood Hospital Foundation wasn't all that interested in saving the Hospital.

Also from the report:

".....requires $90 million + for hospital building to be viable for the next 20 years"

Since we are asked to believe that the Clinic is going to invest $125 million in Lakewood after the hospital closes why couldn't the Foundation ask the Clinic to invest $90 million to save the Hospital?

"Increasing percentage of Lakewood residents seeking health care outside of Lakewood (48% go elsewhere).

That's interesting. If you owned a grocery store in Lakewood and found out that 48% of your potential customers in Lakewood shopped for groceries outside of Lakewood would you:

1. Find out how to attract all of those potential customers?

or

2. Announce that all is lost and the only thing you can think to do is close the doors?

If you are the Lakewood Hospital Foundation you choose number 2. pun intended



Bill

Be careful what you read into the report. As I said, on one page I see them break down
various things into bullet points that make it look like a ton was available, if you look at
the proposals, the Board walked away with the best they could, after the City screwed up
the deal with The Clinic.

As with all committees, especially ones that meet 4 times a year, some people take over
and run with the ball, others sit on the sidelines. You have driving forces and those that
got on the board because someone suggested they do it.

I think if you spend the time to look at the deal, and what others got, and what other
groups were willing to put up, it is the best they could do. Of course common sense
would lead one to think, why blow up a deal, just to have to sit with them at the end
and try desperately to make the company you have a contract with happy again!

There is so much here to sort through, one thing I would say, is that anyone on the
Board, Foundation, or at City Hall involved in this should NEVER BE ALLOWED NEAR
THE MONEY THE CITY SHOULD BE GETTING.

I find it very shortsighted to award the very people that screwed the thing up with the
money and if any of them suggest a Rec Center, then we pursue criminals charges for
conspiracy to sell off a valuable city asset for the whims of a select few delusional people.

.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

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If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Bill Call
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Bill Call »

Subsidium's vision for Lakewood:

How will the new Foundation the money?
How will they replace a hospital?


Wellness Fitness Center
Counseling programs
Peer counseling programs
Personal health navigators
Health coaches
Physician subsidies (?) WHAT?
Parks
Walking Trails
Dog Parks (really)
Healthcare pricing transparency tools
Promotion of urgent care (CVS?)
Subsidies for in home monitoring devices


Good grief.
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Funny, everyone is suddenly talking healthcare in Lakewood. Many people saying many
things, most of it driven by emotion, agendas, and narratives built on anything but
facts, but a community is a community and talk goes on.

Image
All ages, agendas, lifestyles, backgrounds and opinions. 8:30am until Noon, they all leave in agreement.
Investigative reporter, corporate lawyer, health care professional, union organizer, government health care executive.

Civic Discourse Works.

Have a great day, and talk with friends, and ask, what do you think?

.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

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If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
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marklingm
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Re: LAKEWOOD HOSPITAL - The Discussion

Post by marklingm »

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Civic Discourse Works.



How so in this situation, Jim?

Lots of talk ... after the fact.

There is no real civic discourse from our civic leaders and those pulling the strings.

So, how is this "civic discourse working" again?

Matt
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