Tree task force?

[Betsy Voinovich]

Hi all,

I was just reading the latest Lakewood Observer and read about City Council passing a resolution to create a "Tree Task Force." Here's the section of Chris Bindel's article that caused me some concern:

In his communication Powers cites that, as the name of the city indicates, trees are important to Lakewood. He said, “we love their cooling effect in Summer and their beauty in the Fall.” However, he continued to say, the great majority of the large trees we enjoy today were planted in the 1910-1930 period and therefore are coming to the end of their life span.

Powers goes on to say (paraphrased by Chris Bindel):

While the City wishes to protect and prolong the life of the City’s existing trees, it also has a responsibility to protect the safety of the citizens and their homes." In order to help the city be a good steward of Lakewood’s current urban forest and advocate for reforestation efforts, Powers recommends the creation of the Task Force to put a plan together to help the city reach these ends.
http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/read/20 ... task-force

I realize that a lot of the power outages in Lakewood during this past storm were caused by trees falling. I know the storm was the after-effects of a hurricane, and unusually high winds can upend even young trees.

What bothers me is that I didn't know that trees were given a "lifespan." I thought that some were healthier than others, though of course older ones, like older people, usually have more wrong with them. I wouldn't assign a life span to a tree anymore than I would to a human. I know that my kids still marvel every time we drive down Summit and see the "Moses Cleaveland" tree, with its plaque identifying it as a tree that was standing in the forest of trees that was here when Moses Cleaveland first set foot in this area. Well, that was 1796. That's more than a hundred year life-span to say the least.

I know I've seen some wise people on the Deck before who know a lot about trees (I do not) and I was hoping that they would weigh in on this idea. (I also am hoping that they will be appointed to the Tree Task Force.)

Thanks.

Betsy Voinovich

[Paul Schrimpf]

The city really should (probably do) have an arborist on staff to evaluate tree health. Some trees do have a lifespan that's based on genetics. In the wild, sometree species drop seeds and as young trees grow, older trees decline and die ... it's just the way it is. In the city we pick up and dispose of seeds, but that doesn't stop the decline cycle. Some trees are more sensitive to the urban setting -- nutrient gobbling grass, lawn mowers that run over roots, soil compaction from traffic, low soil fertility, sidewalks and hardscape damage, carving trees ... or any combination of the above. It's easy to forget how much we take trees out of their element in the city.

The one on the Nicholson tree lawn near St. Edward that took a week to get to was a time bomb. Completely hollow and ready to give up the ghost, and right near the utility pole it turned into toothpicks. There were many that were uprooted due to a combination of excess rain loosening soil and the wind. Nothing really to do there.

You could probably set priorities pretty easily by selecting the most vulnerable trees in our stock, which i would guess are the sycamores and the maples. It's probably a good idea as long as they don't get overzealous.

My knowledge is based on my work at a landscape publication for a few years .. there are probably some smarter tree folks out there ...

[Jim O'Bryan]

A tree task force? hmmmmmmmmmmmm

I have it on good authority that the Public Works Department had a slew of arborists on
staff and that just last year they identified every tree in Lakewood that needed to come down.

You can imagine my surprise in the last storm when I spoke with Joe Beno, Director of Public
Works and found out that over 70 trees on city property feel in that storm. As it was Joe
that had explained to me in detail about last year's study and the arborists. To Joe's benefit
on this,many of the trees I saw that had fallen appeared to be healthy tree that just could
not take the wind, nor the rain which had turned the ground to mud.


This tree at city hall was more a casualty of the 3 days of rain before the storm, than rot.

A tree's lifespan, perhaps LO's arborist John Palmer can get on and explain this better, but
all trees hav a life span like all living creatures. Most are in the under 100 year group, though
many oaks, walnuts, etc. live beyond that. Lakewood filled with Silver Maples that are
known to have a 75-100 year lifespan. This is what makes "Moses Cleveland Trees" like
the one in Corey's yard so special. Against all odds, including their lifespan they have
soldiered on and thrived.

Wet, dry, ants, concrete, space around the roots can all detract from a tree's life. Here
in Lakewood, the black ants usually make a home in the tree, helping to hollow them out.
The center of a tree, is not where the living is, that happens in the outer rings of the tree
normally, this is why you can kill a tree "girdling it" or cutting the bark off around the base
by about 6-12 inches. So there is a parasitical relationship with the ants getting different
forms of nourishment from the trees, they begin to get hollowed out, and that then catches
and holds rain water which speeds up the rotting in the trunk.





Well, so off we go on a second study of Lakewood's trees, after the first was conducted
just a year ago.

In the Lakewood Observer
From over a year ago...
http://lakewoodobserver.com/read/2011/12/01/lakewood-tree-city-usa-faces-challenge-of-aging-trees

Earlier this year
http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10778&hilit=lakewood+trees

.

[Jill Jusko]

Neither of the links you provided suggest there was a tree study last year.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Neither of the links you provided suggest there was a tree study last year.

Jill

The study information came through Joe Beno, in a private response to the "Where are trees going" thread,
which was a spin-off, though I did not realize at the time it was also connected to Kauffman Park threads.

The information conveyed by Director of Public Works to me that many of Lakewood's street crews had become
trained arborists, and were used to fine and decide what trees to take down.

I did not mean there was information in those links about the study, just that for years people had questioned
the health of trees and called for studies.

Again when I spoke with Joe after the storm, and commented that it had appeared to me his hard work had paid
dividends, with very few city trees down, his response was, "Not good enough as over 70 city trees were down."

I am sorry if I mislead into saying the studies were in the stories.

.

[Gary Rice]

I have a limited knowledge of this sort of thing, so let me offer my two cents here.

1) Many older trees in an urban environment have huge problems. Some of those can be visible in the form of leaf, knot, bark, and trunk details. A hollow tree is not the sturdiest structure in town. As has already been pointed out, squirrels and insects love hollow trees and oftentimes help to make them even hollower.

2) Much of Lakewood has a clay base just a few inches under the topsoil, so I was once informed that our tree roots generally won't run too deep around here. Instead, they tend to spread out, wreck any driveways or water lines that may be in proximity to them, and generally raise havoc with otherwise nice level lawns and sidewalks. Roots need water and the nutrients that are found in soil, not clay.

Shallow rooting structures, plus wind, equals tree fall someday, and the bigger they are, the harder they'll fall. That's an equation that should be easily understood, but is all too often forgotten.

I suspect that we all love trees, but the question as to their ongoing compatibility with urban life would seem to be very much an open one. The first rule that pioneers had for their land was to rid it of the trees. We seem to have forgotten that one.

Unfortunately, the words "beautiful" and "practical" are not always synonymous.

Granted, trees do LOTS of good when it comes to cleaning up the air, and adding to the beauty of a community. There are always tough compromises to think about.

Back to the "once-was-a-tree" banjo.

[Corey Rossen]

The Moses Cleveland tree on Summit Avenue and I have a long history, going back in my family more than 60 years. This being said, it is not doing well. There are constantly truck coming by to look at its health, as they should, and I appreciate that. I have requested, on occasion, the tree crews to come out and look at possible hazardous limbs and they have taken care of any safety issues.

One tree trimming trip a few years ago brought out masses of people fighting to save a few limbs. In fact, by trimming the tree they were helping to save it and prolong its life. This was a hard point to get across to many of the people observing. The crew chief explained to me what was going on and also to the people onsite. I then had to explain it to the same people as they were not convinced by the crew chief. I explained my history with the tree and my appreciation of the care the City was taking of it. I saw it was a losing conversation and decided to go back inside and observe away from the crowds all the while thinking - Where were these people when I had to pay $8000 in water/sewage damage when the tree roots ate through my pipes in the yard a year ago, I could have sure used their financial help and support then.

So, to answer the question of a tree lifespan (without being an arborist), there is a lifespan and a quality of life to maintain both for the tree and the surrounding residents.

Corey

[Jim O'Bryan]

The Moses Cleveland tree on Summit Avenue and I have a long history, going back in my family more than 60 years. This being said, it is not doing well. There are constantly truck coming by to look at its health, as they should, and I appreciate that. I have requested, on occasion, the tree crews to come out and look at possible hazardous limbs and they have taken care of any safety issues.

One tree trimming trip a few years ago brought out masses of people fighting to save a few limbs. In fact, by trimming the tree they were helping to save it and prolong its life. This was a hard point to get across to many of the people observing. The crew chief explained to me what was going on and also to the people onsite. I then had to explain it to the same people as they were not convinced by the crew chief. I explained my history with the tree and my appreciation of the care the City was taking of it. I saw it was a losing conversation and decided to go back inside and observe away from the crowds all the while thinking - Where were these people when I had to pay $8000 in water/sewage damage when the tree roots ate through my pipes in the yard a year ago, I could have sure used their financial help and support then.

So, to answer the question of a tree lifespan (without being an arborist), there is a lifespan and a quality of life to maintain both for the tree and the surrounding residents.

Corey

Corey

Excellent post!

I believe this is what the tree task force wants to look at. The beauty versus the cost. Far easier and cheaper
to take a tree down 9-5, instead of during overtime, in a storm. Far safer to take one down in the day, then
let it fall on someone or something at another time. What are the benefits to a spectacular 100+-year-old tree
and the cost to the "lucky" owner of that tree.

I was just amazed we needed two in two years.

.

[Christopher Bindel]

First I want to make sure everyone knows that this resolution was already in the works before superstorm Sandy. It was not reactionary.

Bestys,

Powers meant that on average these trees live to about 80-110 years depending on their health. Its not unlike the average for human lives which one could argue to be between 70-80 years. Yes some live longer, but some also live shorter, it depends on their health. Also you have to keep in mind Lakewood has more than one kind of tree, and every kind of tree has a different life expectancy. For instance, many oak varieties, such as the Moses Cleveland oak, can live for hundreds of years, while other varieties, like pin oaks, may only live for 100-120 years. Most of the trees planted in the time period Power’s was referring to were silver maples which have a life expectancy of about 80-100 years. They also grow very small root systems close to the surface that makes them more susceptible to blowing over.

Paul,

I’m not 100% sure, but I was under the impression that, like Jim said, the city does have an arborist on staff.

Jim,

The Tree Task Force is not the same thing as what every study they did last year (if that is what you were inferring, I may have misunderstood). It supposed to be a larger strategy plan on how to handle our current aging trees (taking care of them, keeping them healthy, or taking them down if they pose a hazard) and how to replace the trees we are losing and make sure we don’t have a mass die off in the future like we are now. Both, as you put it, in a way to be more affordable for the city (9-5 time is much cheaper then over time)
Also I noticed here you said Joe said the 70 trees lost were public trees, Just relating this to the other thread, the 550 tree total includes non-public trees as well. Sorry I didn’t read this thread before that or I would have made that more clear.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,
The Tree Task Force is not the same thing as what every study they did last year (if that is what you were inferring, I may have misunderstood). It supposed to be a larger strategy plan on how to handle our current aging trees (taking care of them, keeping them healthy, or taking them down if they pose a hazard) and how to replace the trees we are losing and make sure we don’t have a mass die off in the future like we are now. Both, as you put it, in a way to be more affordable for the city (9-5 time is much cheaper then over time)
Also I noticed here you said Joe said the 70 trees lost were public trees, Just relating this to the other thread, the 550 tree total includes non-public trees as well. Sorry I didn’t read this thread before that or I would have made that more clear.

Chris

That was Joe's assessment of city trees a week after the storm. I thought that number could grow, but when
you posted 550, I was amazed. City and private makes sens as a majority of the trees down in this last storm
seemed to be on private property.

The study, as my understanding, again from Joe, was to asses trees that needed to be cut down before they
fell down in a storm or elsewhere. Nothing more, nothing less.

This is why they were cutting on average 2 trees a day down last fall and winter. The mild weather allowed
them to keep up an incredible pace until mid-January when it snowed.

Thanks for the info.

.

[John Palmer]

Well, I don't know where to start. So many questions, so little time. I'll address a couple now, and maybe while the pumpkin pies are baking, I'll address a couple more.

I was honored that the Mayor asked me to be one of his two appointees to the Tree Task Force. His other appointee is David Sangree, President of Lakewood-based Hotel & Leisure Advisors. I've not met Dave, so I'll have to let him speak for himself, but I am looking forward to the appointment.

To quote the letter I received from the Mayor, "In order to help preserve our urban forest, protect the public safety, and create a plan for future reforestation, we are proposing the formation of the Lakewood Tree Task Force." And "The Tree Task Force will assist City government by reviewing our strategies, priorities, communications, and training programs related to urban forestry. They will report their findings and recommendations to Council and the Mayor within nine months, and will disband at the end of one year unless Council takes other action."

I do not know when Council will appoint their 3 members to the Task Force or when the first meeting will be yet.

As far as some things regarding trees, actually, trees do have an expected life span, like all living things. With the right genetics and conditions, trees like the Moses Cleaveland tree can live amazingly long life spans. Trees in 'urban forests' (a euphamism for cities) have specific challenges that differ from those in a forest setting.

Additionally, many people have said that the city has Arborists on staff, but I don't know whether they are Certified Arborists like I am (2+ years of study), or whether they are simply tree care specialists. I am certified by the International Society of Arboriculture, which means I've been trained in things like tree biology, soil science, water management, tree assessment and risk management, pruning and trimming, tree disorders and diagnosis, plant health care (PHC), and more. I also specialize in detection and treatment for Emerald Ash Borer. The city currently has approximately 475 Ash trees on city property, and all of them will be dead in 3 - 5 years, so that presents a major issue facing us. Streets like Northland and Grace are going to look quite different sooner than later. There are other coming issues. Oak Wilt is a deadly fungal disease to all kinds of Oaks, and it can kill a healthy Oak in less than 6 months. Bay Village has seen a significant increase in Oak Wilt deaths, and I've already treated trees in Lakewood for it. Also another invasive insect, the Asian Longhorned beetle has been spotted in southern Ohio and has already killed thousands of trees of all varieties.

As far as all the nitty gritty on understanding trees, I'll turn into 'tree geek' next time, but suffice it to say, black ants follow disease and decay, tree roots do not grow deep, they grow wide and they prefer clay soils to sandy soils, and Silver maples (and to a lesser degree Sugar maples) are a very weak-wooded tree, and many came down recently.

Glad to see all the interest. I look forward to being a part of the whole process. And Jim, good to know I'm LO's "resident" Arborist. Kind of like a puppy?

John

[Jim O'Bryan]

Glad to see all the interest. I look forward to being a part of the whole process. And Jim, good to know I'm LO's "resident" Arborist. Kind of like a puppy?

John

Well kind of, but certainly more important to this city, right now.

John, what is valuable to me is that you grew up here, and have great history here. Though you and I have
rarely agreed on many issues especially those of political nature, you have always brought the truth, and your
long history and education about trees and yard care to this project. Which let's be honest is the true tale of
the "Palmer Clan," which is very Lakewoodcentric and extremely pro-Lakewood. It does not matter if it is
your grandfather and father that ran 3 meat markets in Lakewood or nearby at Kamm's Corner, your brother's
fabulous gamble with Lakewood Hardware.

John, thanks for your time, your words and your dedication.

.

[Will Brown]

Some years ago I had a sick tree, and I looked for someone to look at it, but was not successful, possibly because I didn't know the name of the service I needed. In any event, my tree died and I replaced it.

So if someday I am in that situation again, how do I find a tree service? Hint, I looked in the Observer's listing of businesses and found the category of tree service, but it was not populated.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Some years ago I had a sick tree, and I looked for someone to look at it, but was not successful, possibly because I didn't know the name of the service I needed. In any event, my tree died and I replaced it.

So if someday I am in that situation again, how do I find a tree service? Hint, I looked in the Observer's listing of businesses and found the category of tree service, but it was not populated.

I will correct it, but like everything at the Observer, these things are "put up" operations.

I know John is in the business section here, and yard section here with advice, and I believe
his successful landscaping business is also listed.

jim

[John Palmer]

At the risk of tooting my own horn too loudly, you need to do your homework regarding tree companies and those who promote themselves as tree professionals. In my experience there is a serious lack of knowledge in this industry. Just because a company has guys in hardhats with chainsaws, and big trucks and chippers doesn't mean they have more than a rudimentary knowledge of trees. In most cases they know how to take down trees and may have passed some safety or tree climbing courses, but there's so much more to tree care than that. Many of these same companies pass their workers off as Arborists when they are really just tree removal workers. I've seen some pretty awful (and incorrect) pruning and trimming done by these companies and their employees. If you don't have to worry about a tree you're about to "kill" anyway, then understanding how trees grow isn't really an issue. But, the lines blur way too much for my liking.

As I mentioned before, I'm a Certified Arborist, by the International Society of Arboriculture. They have a great site at http://www.treesaregood.org, including a pdf about hiring an Arborist. http://treesaregood.com/treecare/resour ... borist.pdf. You can also search for a local Arborist at their website, http://www.isa-arbor.com. I just looked and currently there are 6 Certified Arborists in Lakewood, but only 2 of us are "for hire", which means the others may be working for a tree company and not available outside of their jobs.

I've studied for over 2 years to reach this level in my profession, and I plan on spending the next 2 to 3 years studying to reach the level of a Board Certified Master Arborist. Now, just because someone may not want to reach the highest level of accreditation in this industry is not a knock on them, but consumers need to understand that a pickup truck and a chainsaw does not an Arborist make.

Trees are living things, and as such, are as difficult to diagnose and treat as people are. One-size-fits-all solutions are usually not accurate or effective. Understanding why things are happening the way they are is the goal of a good Certified Arborist. I can tell you, I figured we'd have a lot of uprooted trees during Sandy because of all the rain we had previous to the highest winds. Soil moisture content was above what's known as "field capacity" and the water between the soil particles actually acted as a sort of lubricant and reduced the soil's resistance to the force of tree roots against it. The tree's structural roots were transferring force to the equivalent of oatmeal, and they easily pulled right through it.

A good Certified Arborist understands and is willing to continue to add to his or her knowledge of things that affect the trees they see. I spend a lot of time researching pests and pathogens specific to trees in order to make sure my understanding is as up to date as it can be. I am pleased to be on Lakewood's Tree Task Force, and I will continue to make my services available to concerned public and private stakeholders that want the healthiest trees they can get.