Call for Questions

[Corey Rossen]

As for 45 minutes a day for gym or outside activity...that works for younger children, but at the high school level, again, waste of time they could spend in the classroom.

Childhood obesity numbers are at an an alarming rate in today's society. This does not limit itself to younger children, but people of all ages (we won't even go into adult obesity numbers). Physical activity helps not only the body but also the mind, especially in young physically and mentally evolving people. Health matters are a huge concern, yet seemingly overlooked by the diminishing amount of time allocated to nurture them.

School time is very valuable time both for mental and physical demands and needs. Neither should be overlooked or understated.

Corey

[Scott Meeson]

Steve,

But, how do you know how any of the candidates stand on any of the issues that are important to you, Steve?

I remember when "civic leaders" and "politicians" were willing to have their ideas vetted on the Deck ... http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=5136.

Matt

Matt,

2007 Flashback :

http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4600

http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/read/2007/26/08/why-i-am-running-for-the

What an informational blitz that was!

Scott Meeson

[Christina McCallum]

Thanks to everyone who posted a question and to those who've weighed in with thoughts about Lakewood Schools and education in general. What you've posted provides lots of material for me to develop questions; which brings me back to the original title of this post:

Call for Questions

Please take the time to post some questions of interest to you! If you would prefer not to post them in this location, you may email them to lakewoodcouncil@gmail.com.

Thanks again, I am sure the Candidates Night will benefit from all of your input!

[Will Brown]

It seems to me that obesity is a health problem, and I wonder why we expect the schools to deal with a health problem. The parents are in a better position to deal with health problems, if they are competent parents.

The schools should be concerned with education; eliminating the physical education programs would free a lot of money to deal with academic subjects. If parents are unable to deal with their child's health problems, a few hours of mandatory physical education will not solve the problem.

Similarly, a lot of the classes we are paying for are not at all related to being a capable citizen. Art classes, for example, teach finger painting and pasting, skills that are, for most of us, irrelevant. I can understand the advantages of teaching art appreciation and music appreciation, but classes in art and music performance are in large a waste of resources. If your child wants to learn painting or playing, there are private institutions that do a better job than the public schools.

[Thealexa Becker]

It seems to me that obesity is a health problem, and I wonder why we expect the schools to deal with a health problem. The parents are in a better position to deal with health problems, if they are competent parents.

The schools should be concerned with education; eliminating the physical education programs would free a lot of money to deal with academic subjects. If parents are unable to deal with their child's health problems, a few hours of mandatory physical education will not solve the problem.

Similarly, a lot of the classes we are paying for are not at all related to being a capable citizen. Art classes, for example, teach finger painting and pasting, skills that are, for most of us, irrelevant. I can understand the advantages of teaching art appreciation and music appreciation, but classes in art and music performance are in large a waste of resources. If your child wants to learn painting or playing, there are private institutions that do a better job than the public schools.

I agree with everything you said about the physical education classes. That is exactly my point. You cannot teach healthy by forcing students into phys ed. I mean, when I was in those classes, I just tried to find creative ways to do NOT do anything because I just didn't want to be in a herd running in circles.

However, I disagree about art and music. My music classes in middle school were the best part of my day. And I wished that I would have had the opportunity to trade in my lunch period for art classes but it never worked out. They might not be essential, but those are skills and a lot of times people don't have the money to spend on private lessons or the resources to pay for renting an instrument. It doesn't cost much to buy tennis shoes and tell your kid to run around the block or jump rope or play in the snow.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Question -

With the current trend in a down turned economy, and it would seem school classes growing again, where do you see that the schools can increase their revenue so as to provide more opportunities for Lakewood students?

Bonus question -

What would you look to do with that additional revenue?


OK now I can talk about the rest of this thread.

Bill

As you well know, the Deck is a tough and tumble place where questions cannot be
side stepped. This makes it very, very, very uncomfortable to those that have a
DESPERATE NEED TO CONTROL the conversation. As you and I have discussed numerous
times, most politicians in this town have neither the wit, patience or the ability to interact
in such an open a free flowing dialogue. Their reasons for not are spectacular, and range
from one elected official who gave it up for Lent. To a school board member that can work
their computer. In the 8-years since elected officials helped us to craft the Deck to serve
their needs, those would be the two best reasons I have heard!

I wrote the LO Letter to go with the paper and I used that damn term "project" because the
LO is not the paper, nor the deck, nor the free websites, nor the community outreach, it
is a combination of all of those and many more. When we spoke with psychologists and
sociologists, and even anthropologists about this, and the "community" they wondered if
public officials could really be public, or would they worry more about their re-election.
Would it be more valuable to reach out to every person in a community, or would they
fear offending someone and ruining their political career?

People like you and Matt Markling have always been very open, and while I find your demeanor
to be very different in real life, your mind is exactly the same. Ed FitzGerald was a pro
at coming in hear. He came with with facts and the persona of a father either calming
everyone down, or telling us how it was. Kevin Butler, and Shawn Juris seem to jump
in now and then, Ed Favre jumps in.

But this is a city that has rewarded cliches and stealth campaigns(Steve Davis' term) than
ever allowing for even a moment anyone to see the real person.

When I go into the booth, I am only voting for people that have given us that kind of insight
and if I then agree with their ideas. I have decided, better to not throw a vote in to
finish, then allow anymore "secret team players" into the game.

FWIW

.
such

[Kristine Pagsuyoin]

The schools should be concerned with education; eliminating the physical education programs would free a lot of money to deal with academic subjects. If parents are unable to deal with their child's health problems, a few hours of mandatory physical education will not solve the problem.

Perhaps there is a different way we should view physical education and other curriculum that teaches our children how to take care of themselves and live a more healthful life.

There are many studies and research that have revealed that physical activity and good nutrition boosts our brain power and our ability to learn. If fact, if you talk to most adults who walk around in a fog they will contribute it to not getting to the gym or slacking off on their diet. Kids are no different. We know that if you take kids outside and let them run around for 15-20 minutes before a test that they will do better on the exam than if they were in their seat all day long. There have been schools that actually have cut instructional time for more activity only to watch test scores and student achievement increase. Kids are made to move. Physical activity and teaching kids that good nutrition is the key to good brain power is inexpensive and yet packs powerful results.

Additionally, producing an obese workforce with terrible eating habits costs our health system and employers more money. Employers are looking for creative, skilled, and well-rounded workers that are able to produce more than ever before. Education, if the goal is to prepare kids for the work force, should address the whole student. They don’t want kids with health issues or not enough stamina to do the jobs they are hired to do. That includes jobs with high mental demands as well as physical-related jobs. Either way, it is going to cost money. We can either invest on the front-end and produce healthy well-rounded students, or we can keep dumping money into treating diseases caused by obesity and poor nutrition. I hear so many adults who talk about their own time in school and who think education should be about us getting back to the basics. Yet, the same adults will downplay the importance of physical education. When they were young gym was a huge part of school—so was music, art, and other programs that taught kids how to be healthy. School is more than about the 3 R’s. It always has been. Education is not abandoning the basics we are building on them. The connection between well-balanced kids and learning is obvious. We can use that to benefit our kids and help our district move toward being a leader in education.

The question for a candidate might be something like: What is your opinion about keeping physical education, music, and art an integral part of the school experience? Why or Why not?

[marklingm]

Steve,

But, how do you know how any of the candidates stand on any of the issues that are important to you, Steve?

I remember when "civic leaders" and "politicians" were willing to have their ideas vetted on the Deck ... http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=5136.

Matt

Matt,

2007 Flashback :

http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4600

http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/read/2007/26/08/why-i-am-running-for-the

What an informational blitz that was!

Scott Meeson

Scott,

I worked very hard to fully share my background, education, employment, and values with the Citizens of Lakewood during my campaign and tenure on the Lakewood City School District Board of Education. No surprises. No stealth campaigns.

And, it's all here, on the Deck and in The Lakewood Observer … in a transparent and accountable manner.

Matt

[Corey Rossen]

I agree with everything you said about the physical education classes. That is exactly my point. You cannot teach healthy by forcing students into phys ed. I mean, when I was in those classes, I just tried to find creative ways to do NOT do anything because I just didn't want to be in a herd running in circles.

However, I disagree about art and music. My music classes in middle school were the best part of my day. And I wished that I would have had the opportunity to trade in my lunch period for art classes but it never worked out. They might not be essential, but those are skills and a lot of times people don't have the money to spend on private lessons or the resources to pay for renting an instrument. It doesn't cost much to buy tennis shoes and tell your kid to run around the block or jump rope or play in the snow.

By these same standards than...You cannot teach mathematics by forcing students into math class. I mean, when I was in those classes, I just tried to find creative ways to NOT do anything because I just didn't want to be in a herd learning diameters of circles.

However, I disagree about Phys. Ed. My gym classes in middle school were the best part of my day. And I wished that I would have had the opportunity to trade in my lunch period for Phys. Ed classes but it never worked out. It might not be essential, but those are skills, health benefits, and a lot of time people don't have the money to spend on private lessons or the resources to pay for instrument. It doesn't cost much to buy a calculator and tell your kid to press a few buttons.

It just doesn't sound the same. Both are important.

Corey

[Thealexa Becker]

I agree with everything you said about the physical education classes. That is exactly my point. You cannot teach healthy by forcing students into phys ed. I mean, when I was in those classes, I just tried to find creative ways to do NOT do anything because I just didn't want to be in a herd running in circles.

However, I disagree about art and music. My music classes in middle school were the best part of my day. And I wished that I would have had the opportunity to trade in my lunch period for art classes but it never worked out. They might not be essential, but those are skills and a lot of times people don't have the money to spend on private lessons or the resources to pay for renting an instrument. It doesn't cost much to buy tennis shoes and tell your kid to run around the block or jump rope or play in the snow.

By these same standards than...You cannot teach mathematics by forcing students into math class. I mean, when I was in those classes, I just tried to find creative ways to NOT do anything because I just didn't want to be in a herd learning diameters of circles.

However, I disagree about Phys. Ed. My gym classes in middle school were the best part of my day. And I wished that I would have had the opportunity to trade in my lunch period for Phys. Ed classes but it never worked out. It might not be essential, but those are skills, health benefits, and a lot of time people don't have the money to spend on private lessons or the resources to pay for instrument. It doesn't cost much to buy a calculator and tell your kid to press a few buttons.

It just doesn't sound the same. Both are important.

Corey

As a math major, trust me, telling your kids to press a few buttons is NOT how to teach math. But you can tell a kid to run around and play outside and they can figure it out. Do you think kids are going to learn calculus by playing with a calculator?

Those are just not the same at all.

Should we cut gym? No, but we shouldn't require it for everyone, like other classes such as algebra. I would have rather spent the time in a different class, like math, than be in gym. I am just saying I don't agree with having an 8 hour day packed with all these things. They should be offered, but if a student wants to take two sciences instead of gym or art or music, they should be allowed to.

Do you know how hard it is to convince the schools to let you skip lunch, for instance? Not impossible, but harder than it needs to be. They always try to talk you out of it and all I wanted to do was just sign the form and get it over with and take an extra class.

[Will Brown]

It sounds like a lot of people judge schools and teachers by their entertainment value. So if you are in a class where the teacher is very personable and tells a lot of jokes, you would rank that teacher highly, even if you never learned anything. On the other hand, if the teacher has a prickly personality, is very demanding, and pushes you beyond your comfort level, you would rank that teacher low, even if he taught you a lot.

I can understand students doing this, because they have little experience on which to base their judgment, and you often don't realize how well you were taught until well after the event. Years ago I was in some advanced classes at LHS, and it was not until I was well into college before I realized that LHS had educated me far better than most of my college peers who had gone to other schools. In law school, student evaluations of the faculty were kept in the library, and after a couple of years I recognized that the teachers who were entertaining and not demanding were highly evaluated while those who were more focused on teaching, and were often demanding, were frequently criticized. I had teachers of each type, and I usually learned far more in classes taught by the more demanding teachers. I even had one teacher who was both demanding and entertaining, and that was a pleasure. On the other hand, I had one highly evaluated amiable dunce who told a lot of stories, showed films, and gave true/false exams; any learning I got in that class I got on my own.

I think most parents are similarly inept in evaluating teachers. They often praise a teacher who is friendly and accessible, with apparently no consideration of whether their child is being challenged and learning as much as possible.

So I think evaluating a curriculum based on its entertainment value is only of marginal value in deciding what the schools should be doing. But much of the curriculum is there just for entertainment value and takes up time and resources that should be spent on things that make our students better readers, writers, and mathematicians.

I am not convinced that physical education is an efficient use of resources. There is almost no individual planning or evaluation (varsity sports being an exception). The teacher does not know your child's familial history, which is essential in exercise planning. They don't know any current problems or moods that the parents would be attuned to. I think kids get most of their exercise on their own, or would if their parents would quit driving them everywhere. And a parent can control the child's diet, and is more likely to notice that he doesn't fit into his clothes anymore. Of course, my feelings are based on the assumption that parents will act as parents, which is too often not the case.

I just think we do not have endless resources, and we should stop wasting them on classes that amuse and entertain, but don't contribute to academic achievement when the rest of the world is concentrating on academics while our children fall behind.

[stephen davis]

Similarly, a lot of the classes we are paying for are not at all related to being a capable citizen. Art classes, for example, teach finger painting and pasting, skills that are, for most of us, irrelevant. I can understand the advantages of teaching art appreciation and music appreciation, but classes in art and music performance are in large a waste of resources. If your child wants to learn painting or playing, there are private institutions that do a better job than the public schools.

Will,

Although I believe that the richness of a community or culture is not based exclusively in the study of science, math, or law, I don’t really want to argue long about the value of the arts in advanced societies. My degree was in Art, with minors in Art History and Business. You can just assume that our views are going to differ.

During the Second World War, Winston Churchill's finance minister said Britain should cut arts funding to support the war effort. Churchill's response: "Then what are we fighting for?"

Okay, I’m done with the rich culture part.

Art classes, for example, teach finger painting and pasting, skills that are, for most of us, irrelevant.

If you are really talking about educating for practical things like jobs and the reduction of trade deficits, then let’s examine what is relevant.

Without any data in front of me, I would guess that in the areas of arts and music, the United States probably has a trade surplus, not a deficit. I'm almost certain that we export more design, movies, and music than we import.

The unmistakable Coca-Cola and McDonald’s logos, among many others, have given us access to many world markets.

...a lot of the classes we are paying for are not at all related to being a capable citizen. Art classes, for example...

I know many professional fine artists and musicians. I have worked in the marketing, advertising, and printing business for most of my adult life. As a result, I also know many commercial artists and designers. I’d like to see data on how many “capable citizen[s]” of Lakewood earn a living in creative industries. I know many.

...but classes in art and music performance are in large a waste of resources.

I have to assume that you’ve gone to movies, seen television, read a magazine, been compelled by a brochure or advertisement, been to a concert, bought a car, a music CD, or any number of things that have been designed or created by artists and musicians. I cannot judge the relevance of those things in your life. I’m just guessing that plain text on white paper, or in an e-mail, would not have been as compelling or interesting, even though the font for the plain text was designed by an artist.

The products of science and math don’t often make it to the marketplace successfully without art (design), and sometimes music.

What made Apple the largest technology company in America was not just the techies that made the processors switch on and off, but also the product designers that made stylish and elegant cases, the artists that helped design the Graphic User Interface that changed the world, and the advertising artists that created packaging and promotional designs. I know many of their products are produced overseas, but we export design with each one sold abroad.

My cousin, a graphic designer in her own right, is married to a graduate of the Cleveland Institute of Art. Her husband designs retail spaces. He works for a large agency in Columbus that does work domestically and abroad. When I heard he was working on a chain of retail stores in Japan and traveling there often, I asked him if he had to study Japanese culture and their sense of space before he could start. His answer surprised me. He told me that the Japanese hired this American agency to design their Japanese stores just like they would an American one. Anecdotally, this is just one example of us exporting design.

Art classes, for example, teach finger painting and pasting, skills that are, for most of us, irrelevant.

Really?

Steve

.

[Will Brown]

Similarly, a lot of the classes we are paying for are not at all related to being a capable citizen. Art classes, for example, teach finger painting and pasting, skills that are, for most of us, irrelevant. I can understand the advantages of teaching art appreciation and music appreciation, but classes in art and music performance are in large a waste of resources. If your child wants to learn painting or playing, there are private institutions that do a better job than the public schools.

Will,

Although I believe that the richness of a community or culture is not based exclusively in the study of science, math, or law, I don’t really want to argue long about the value of the arts in advanced societies. My degree was in Art, with minors in Art History and Business. You can just assume that our views are going to differ.

During the Second World War, Winston Churchill's finance minister said Britain should cut arts funding to support the war effort. Churchill's response: "Then what are we fighting for?"

Okay, I’m done with the rich culture part.

Art classes, for example, teach finger painting and pasting, skills that are, for most of us, irrelevant.

If you are really talking about educating for practical things like jobs and the reduction of trade deficits, then let’s examine what is relevant.

Without any data in front of me, I would guess that in the areas of arts and music, the United States probably has a trade surplus, not a deficit. I'm almost certain that we export more design, movies, and music than we import.

The unmistakable Coca-Cola and McDonald’s logos, among many others, have given us access to many world markets.

...a lot of the classes we are paying for are not at all related to being a capable citizen. Art classes, for example...

I know many professional fine artists and musicians. I have worked in the marketing, advertising, and printing business for most of my adult life. As a result, I also know many commercial artists and designers. I’d like to see data on how many “capable citizen[s]” of Lakewood earn a living in creative industries. I know many.

...but classes in art and music performance are in large a waste of resources.

I have to assume that you’ve gone to movies, seen television, read a magazine, been compelled by a brochure or advertisement, been to a concert, bought a car, a music CD, or any number of things that have been designed or created by artists and musicians. I cannot judge the relevance of those things in your life. I’m just guessing that plain text on white paper, or in an e-mail, would not have been as compelling or interesting, even though the font for the plain text was designed by an artist.

The products of science and math don’t often make it to the marketplace successfully without art (design), and sometimes music.

What made Apple the largest technology company in America was not just the techies that made the processors switch on and off, but also the product designers that made stylish and elegant cases, the artists that helped design the Graphic User Interface that changed the world, and the advertising artists that created packaging and promotional designs. I know many of their products are produced overseas, but we export design with each one sold abroad.

My cousin, a graphic designer in her own right, is married to a graduate of the Cleveland Institute of Art. Her husband designs retail spaces. He works for a large agency in Columbus that does work domestically and abroad. When I heard he was working on a chain of retail stores in Japan and traveling there often, I asked him if he had to study Japanese culture and their sense of space before he could start. His answer surprised me. He told me that the Japanese hired this American agency to design their Japanese stores just like they would an American one. Anecdotally, this is just one example of us exporting design.

Art classes, for example, teach finger painting and pasting, skills that are, for most of us, irrelevant.

Really?

Steve

.

I think we don't disagree as completely as you seem to think.

I value the cultural aspects of society greatly, but I would teach things like art appreciation and history in the same vein as we teach history. I would not, however subsidize, however, teaching performance, mostly because it is inefficient to make everyone master a fluteaphone. The lakewood schools were pushing music one year, and came around and assigned everyone an instrument. They assigned my son the trombone because he had long arms, so he said. The schools did not have the resources, however to provide much in the way of lessons, so I had to sign him up for private lessons if he was to succeed. I have no idea how many of his peers persevered in learning their instrument; I suspect they all switched to guitar as soon as they could.

But my point is the school, despite a lot of effort (read that as money not used for more academic subjects), wasn't very good at teaching music. I'm pretty sure my kids never were taught the appreciation and history of music.

I strain to try to find a rationale for teaching music performance, and the only thing I come up with is that it may teach a bit of team effort, but I think the academic subjects can be structured to teach team effort, while at the same time giving the students skills they will need, such as reading, writing, and reasoning.

I don't mean to pick on music; many subjects the schools teach fall in the same category.

I have no problem with post high school institutions (and even teachers who teach teens, such as private music teachers) teaching performance arts, and we are fortunate in this area to have a lot of such institutions. I just think the public school systems should put their resources into areas that are of economic and political value in producing informed and employable citizens.

And just to show how outrageous my ideas can be, I see little value in varsity sports. Private groups can do that better, with no distractions at the school, and no cheating scandals or whining about the fairness of public schools competing with private schools.

[Danielle Masters]

Will, we've been through this before and honestly I don't want to get into this with you again.

But I do suggest you take a trip up to Lakewood High school so that you can see what is being taught there. Talk with our wonderful instructors, sit in for AP Music Theory or AP Art History and follow those artistically talented students to their academic classes. Go to a Lakewood Project concert or any of the other music programs from elementary through high school.

Contact Mr. George Reed and ask about why he choose to make his donations to the Lakewood music programs. Talk to the high school students who donate their time to tutor young music students. Attend part of the music marathon at the high school and talk to the parents who volunteer their time for Lakewood's very active music booster program.

Lakewood has a very active and wonderful music program, one of the best in the area. We have graduated some very bright students who not only excel in music but also in academics. Music and art take time, talent and dedication and those students apply those same skills to their academics. Honestly it's too late once students reach high to start an instrument. They need to be trained early.

I am sorry your son didn't excel in music. Not every person can, I am one of those people, I never excelled at art or music but I understood how important it is to our society and the education of our students. There is room for more than math, reading, history and writing. Not everyone will be an engineer or a doctor, some of our students will grow up to be artists and musician and I am grateful that our community values all of their choices and wants to make sure they can all succeed.

[michael gill]

Thank you, Steve.

Anybody got questions for the school board candidates?