Lincoln Electric Does It, Should Lakewood?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Sunday I went out to the eastside to shop at Micro Center (boy would that be great in the Hinkley Lighting Building) and had a chance to once again see the Lincol Electric Wind Turbine on East 222nd St.


This photo was taken on the property. The car in front is about 50 yards away, and the
windmill is still 1/2 mile away.


The blades are 162' long, and they claim it would only take 5 of them to run the entire city
of Lakewood with FREE power for all, and maybe even a dividened back from the Electric
Company! Now couple this with a mass quainty by of various electric vehicles, things could
get interesting very quickly. What would you do with the extra money? I would shop local!


But in an effort to save all of us millions, and make money, where do we put all five, or six?


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[Michael Loje]

From what I understand, there are still a few technical problems to be worked out. First, the propeller is coupled to the generator by means of a gearbox. That gearbox requires regular maintenance. That maintenance requires removal of the propeller and superstructure. If the gearbox fails, the machine basically self-destructs. That is one of the reasons they are built in wide-open areas. When a "direct coupled" machine becomes available, not requiring a gearbox, they will be much more trouble free. As far as "free" power goes, that assumes the machine and the labor to install it are donated. Assuming it is not donated, the real payback time is sixteen years, or eight years with tax credits. Any gearbox maintenance, which is basically a construction project, would add to that.

[Jim O'Bryan]

From what I understand, there are still a few technical problems to be worked out. First, the propeller is coupled to the generator by means of a gearbox. That gearbox requires regular maintenance. That maintenance requires removal of the propeller and superstructure. If the gearbox fails, the machine basically self-destructs. That is one of the reasons they are built in wide-open areas. When a "direct coupled" machine becomes available, not requiring a gearbox, they will be much more trouble free. As far as "free" power goes, that assumes the machine and the labor to install it are donated. Assuming it is not donated, the real payback time is sixteen years, or eight years with tax credits. Any gearbox maintenance, which is basically a construction project, would add to that.

Michael

Don Farris has been a huge fan of wind power and that was one of the cornerstones of
Savannah's Peninsula projects, windmills out in the lake where they would catch the
most wind. I believe she had 16 smaller wind turbines.

But the truth, right now, as with many green things is when you add in the cost, the
carbon footprint for making the turbine. The massive cranes and or helicopters to
build, and the fact that they do start to breakdown in as little as five years makes it
pretty unrealistic today, but five or ten years from now?

So where do we put them?


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[Michael Loje]

Environmentalists should be able to advise placement. But in the future look for "direct drive". They will be much safer and more efficient. In the meantime, google something like "self destructing wind generators". It will show some of the less publicized aspects of the current state of the art.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Environmentalists should be able to advise placement. But in the future look for "direct drive". They will be much safer and more efficient. In the meantime, google something like "self destructing wind generators". It will show some of the less publicized aspects of the current state of the art.

I believe the latest slew of photovoltaics out of Italy will lead the way for the rest of us.

Highly effective units that are printed instead of grown. Cost so low they will soon be
slightly more than the cost of regular printing. Much more effective than current crop.
This will allow the average home owner to capture a large percentage of their needs in
less intrusive methods. This is what they are looking at in the University Circle area, and
the early projections look pretty damn good.

FWIW

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[Jim DeVito]

I'm waiting for family car sized underground "mini" reactors!

[Roy Pitchford]

I and my business partner were out at Micro Center on Thursday, went by the turbine as well.

Tell you a little secret: In Wisconsin, where I was born (and return to about twice a year), farmers were told they'd get free or discounted electricity if they allowed the power company to put turbines up on their property.
There's now dozens of turbines visible from US route 41. I'll give you three guesses who's not getting discounted electricity.

[Roy Pitchford]

While I was drilling down my list of bookmarks, I ran across this:
http://www.solarroadways.com/main.html

[Jim DeVito]

Roy

Do you know how they are making out on the lease of land for the turbines? Sounds like the discounted rates are more of a legal matter with the utility.

[Betsy Voinovich]

From what I understand, there are still a few technical problems to be worked out. First, the propeller is coupled to the generator by means of a gearbox. That gearbox requires regular maintenance. That maintenance requires removal of the propeller and superstructure. If the gearbox fails, the machine basically self-destructs. That is one of the reasons they are built in wide-open areas.

This part of what Michael said really jumped out at me, especially the part about self-destruction and wide open areas.

Then i went ahead and followed his suggestion and googled "self destructing wind generators."



Okay. In answer to Jim's question, "where do we put them?" The answer is clearly not anywhere near humans. Until the whole gearbox issue is resolved-- among other issues like their huge carbon footprint-- it seems the answer might be "nowhere."

The turbine at Lincoln Electric clearly is not built in a wide-open area. I wonder what that does for housing values in Euclid?

Betsy Voinovich

[Michael Loje]

Betsy, its in the southeast corner of E222nd and St Clair, Lincoln's grassy, undeveloped area.

[Michael Loje]

Betsy, the particular utube you show here, I believe, is a mechanical brake failure. Wind generators usually have a top speed of about 20 revolutions per minute. There is a brake that limits the speed, and that failed. At uncontrolled high speed, it literally shook itself apart. Other things that happen are shedding of ice from the blades, and disintegration of the blades.

[Bob Mehosky]

Just for the record, the tower cost $5.9 million and anticipated energy savings for Lincoln is $500k per year.

The State of Ohio gave a $1.12 million grant and Cuyahoga County gave a $350k loan – which is forgivable. So, even considering the government is essentially paying for a quarter of the cost of the tower, it won't pay for itself for almost 9 years, and that presumes no maintenance costs. and presumes no cost of capital.

Without government kickbacks, the technology barely pays for itself over its expected lifespan. If you factor in the cost of money upfront, it's an even worse deal.

There's a lot of places Lakewood could use a million and a half dollars besides a windmill.

[Michael Loje]

By the way, Jim, whatever moves into Hinkley Lighting's newer building will probably be something that can take advantage of it's 40 foot high ceilings.
Think about this. I believe all of Hinkley's property here is for sale. Demolishing them could make room for a WalMart and some fast-food joints. Think TAX REVENUE

[Michael Loje]

Heres another strange thing about wind turbines. Over the next few years, a lot of warranties of the turbines are expiring! That is apparently causing concern throughout the industry. I guess they can't get cheap extended warranties.