http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071122/ap_ ... _nuclear_2
Anyone can google how Iran has built up centrufuges all over the country to make weapon grade material.
Iran is defying everyone but Russia. Their leader has vowed to wipe Israel off the map. Israel will not allow that.
Oil in the mid east is at stake and if Iran keeps racheting up it's nuclear capablities, it will dominate the mid east, and Iran will decide how much oil should the U.S get.
This puts the next sitting president in an interesting position, irregardless of who it is, as far as our oil usage and demands by our industry and citizens in the next year or two.
Mark C.
Iran
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Mark Crnolatas
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- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
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ryan costa
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it is sad
Iran had been trying to develop nuclear energy since the 70s. In the
seventies the American administration supported this. It argued this
would free up more oil for export. The average Iranian uses about 1/6th as much electricity as an average American.
Iran subsidizes its gasoline. Iranians love to drive. Iranian men and
women love to drive. The Iranian president tried to reduce subsidies
for gasoline consumption. The Iranian public largely rejected this. He
increased his militant rhetoric against the U.S. to save face.
Iran supposedly has 138 billion barrels of proven reserves of petroleum. The USA has 21.37 billion. Iraq has 112.5, Saudi Arabia has 264.2, and Kuwait has 101.5. This is from the CIA World Factbook.
If Iran nukes Israel that is our excuse or the European Union's excuse
to assume power in Iran. If Israel nukes Iran that is America or the
European Union's excuse to assume control of Israel. (protective
custody?).
Most Middle Eastern Oil goes to Europe and Asia. Iran does not control
the Middle Eastern oil market. Iran does not control Iraqi, kuwaiti, or
Saudi oil exports. If Iran's status as an exporter of oil affects world
market prices, there must be reforms to how the Wall Street commodities
traders bid up the price of oil.
If the oil demands of China and Japan and South Korea are affecting
world prices in a way we do not like, it is simply a matter of reforming
our trade strategies. Much of their oil needs are spent manufacturing
Cargo to ship to the U.S. Manufacturing the Cargo requires oil. If
this Cargo were manufactured in the U.S., it would cost a bit more.
This means a bit less of it would be produced, meaning less oil would be
consumed, meaning there would be more oil or cheaper oil for other
things. This also means less garbage.
Reducing our "dependence" on "foreign" oil can only mean trying to do one thing. That is reducing the total amount of oil we use. Mostly that will mean reducing the amount of activities we do that require oil. I don't see any propaganda posters for driving smaller cars or car pooling. All the propaganda is about "defending our way of life" and "freedom".
seventies the American administration supported this. It argued this
would free up more oil for export. The average Iranian uses about 1/6th as much electricity as an average American.
Iran subsidizes its gasoline. Iranians love to drive. Iranian men and
women love to drive. The Iranian president tried to reduce subsidies
for gasoline consumption. The Iranian public largely rejected this. He
increased his militant rhetoric against the U.S. to save face.
Iran supposedly has 138 billion barrels of proven reserves of petroleum. The USA has 21.37 billion. Iraq has 112.5, Saudi Arabia has 264.2, and Kuwait has 101.5. This is from the CIA World Factbook.
If Iran nukes Israel that is our excuse or the European Union's excuse
to assume power in Iran. If Israel nukes Iran that is America or the
European Union's excuse to assume control of Israel. (protective
custody?).
Most Middle Eastern Oil goes to Europe and Asia. Iran does not control
the Middle Eastern oil market. Iran does not control Iraqi, kuwaiti, or
Saudi oil exports. If Iran's status as an exporter of oil affects world
market prices, there must be reforms to how the Wall Street commodities
traders bid up the price of oil.
If the oil demands of China and Japan and South Korea are affecting
world prices in a way we do not like, it is simply a matter of reforming
our trade strategies. Much of their oil needs are spent manufacturing
Cargo to ship to the U.S. Manufacturing the Cargo requires oil. If
this Cargo were manufactured in the U.S., it would cost a bit more.
This means a bit less of it would be produced, meaning less oil would be
consumed, meaning there would be more oil or cheaper oil for other
things. This also means less garbage.
Reducing our "dependence" on "foreign" oil can only mean trying to do one thing. That is reducing the total amount of oil we use. Mostly that will mean reducing the amount of activities we do that require oil. I don't see any propaganda posters for driving smaller cars or car pooling. All the propaganda is about "defending our way of life" and "freedom".
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Mark Crnolatas
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:32 pm
- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
..
A potential scenario: None of the other mid east countries have nuclear capability, nor are building up to it. Iran decides to target all those countries that you named, they would then control whatever they want by the "gun to the head" type of diplomacy.
Possible?
Then what?
Mark Allan Crnolatas
Possible?
Then what?
Mark Allan Crnolatas
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Steve Hoffert
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:37 pm
- Location: Lakewood Ohio
Re: ..
Mark Crnolatas wrote:A potential scenario: None of the other mid east countries have nuclear capability, nor are building up to it. Iran decides to target all those countries that you named, they would then control whatever they want by the "gun to the head" type of diplomacy.
Possible?
Then what?
Mark Allan Crnolatas
Israel already has nukes, so that scenario is shot. The US says and does nothing about them. Gee, are we playing favorites? Pakistan, military dictatorship...we do nothing....but give both these countries BILLIONS of dollars to build weapons to suppress a large bit of their population and kick back money to congress. The American way..corporate interests over the interest of the people.....sounds like the same pre war propaganda that got the sheep to support the war in Iraq.
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ryan costa
- Posts: 2486
- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:31 pm
in theory
So far it has been the United States that has demonstrated the ability and initiative to affect nearly immediate regime change in the region. I don't know to what extent we have or do not have control of Iraqi Oil Sales or Extraction. We have also shown the ability to kick Iraq out of Kuwait pretty easily. Kuwait is a lot smaller than Iraq. Iran cannot entertain any expectations of being able to hold Iraq or any other territory.
If Iran was such a big deal perhaps it would been better to have invaded Iran rather than Iraq.
We seem to be glued to this attitude of total recklessness when it comes to energy policy. We've got commercials of that tall country singer singing about being a "big tall daddy" or something, encouraging people to buy a truck much larger than most of them will need. It's a Neo-Redneck cult of excess. It is the exact opposite of what kind of values the hypothetical free market or government should be promoting.
If Iran was such a big deal perhaps it would been better to have invaded Iran rather than Iraq.
We seem to be glued to this attitude of total recklessness when it comes to energy policy. We've got commercials of that tall country singer singing about being a "big tall daddy" or something, encouraging people to buy a truck much larger than most of them will need. It's a Neo-Redneck cult of excess. It is the exact opposite of what kind of values the hypothetical free market or government should be promoting.