Helmets for scooters?

[Jim O'Bryan]

What is to keep a kid from getting a scooter, maybe for the first time, without any guidance or supervision, go cruising down the street or sidewalk, and crash and fall, hit their head, and injure themselves for life - or worse?

What could go wrong? If it could happen, it will happen, and someone will be hit with a very expensive lawsuit.

Requiring protective gear for these things is not just being a Nanny city, it's taking a defensive posture and maybe saving a young person from themselves.

Dan

First off you need access to both a smart phone and a credit card to use one. They are not cheap.

I can see where people using them for regular transport, work, school, bars, might bring a helmet. But there is also a serendipitous side to scooters. I was on Jury duty and used one to get to Slyman's and back for lunch. I had no helmet, and felt pretty safe. Much easier than a Segway.

In my opinion the scooters and bikes serve two purposes. People sightseeing, and parking/crowd control. Example park downtown at a lot for $5 and take a scooter to the game, instead of paying $25 next to the stadium.

It will be interesting how this experiment ends up. My suriosty takes me to how much are they paying for access to our spaces? AT&T pay nothing for their Uverse Boxes, and together they take up a nice chunk of public owned spaces.

For profit companies should pay.

FWIW

Kids are getting cel phones at younger and younger ages. I suspect the credit card you mention is a credit card number saved to an app. In that case, not much would prevent a kid from obtaining one of their parents, especially for a one-time use.

Dan

Well then, what would you say. Me personally, hope they have insurance, good insurance, as head injuries take a lifetime to overcome.

I think Doris Day summed it up best with...




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[Dan Alaimo]

You know what I would do, sue the city. Big time. It needs to take a defensive posture on scooter safety.

I like to think I personally wouldn't sue, but we are talking potentially very costly damages.

[Jim O'Bryan]

You know what I would do, sue the city. Big time. It needs to take a defensive posture on scooter safety.

I like to think I personally wouldn't sue, but we are talking potentially very costly damages.

Dan

Let me get this straight, you buy your kid under 18 a smart phone, set up credit card account. He rents a scooter, hurts himself and you sue the city?

The actual chain would be, car, Bid Scooters, who also make them, so manufacturer also, the place with the green box where they got it, the man that recharges it, and whoever distracted them.

You can get a ham sandwich into court, I have learned that first hand!

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[Tim Liston]

Some Not-Quite-Random Thoughts on Scooters, Helmets, etc….

I spend a lot of time cycling Lake Road and across Edgewater Park to Whiskey Island. Gonna be there tonight to watch Ted Riser for a set.

Scooters are very useful and fun and they are going to become increasingly popular, like it or not. Lakewood in particular should welcome them. Sure there’s a safety issue but some will tell you (more so with cycling) that the health benefits of the outdoor activity offset the infrequent safety risks. In fact I just bought a refurbished scooter for $200 on Woot (click here) which comes tomorrow. 450W motor (!), 18mph, foldable, BT speaker! Just for knocking around….

I’ve also ridden the Lime bikes down in Edgewater Park a couple times. They are very cool. It’s amazing the first time you barely pedal one and it just TAKES OFF, but silently. Ebikes are going to gain popularity too. Right now the ebikes at Edgewater Beach turn themselves off when you try to cross into Lakewood…. ;-(

Helmets are obvious. Wear one when operating a scooter, bike or ebike. But don’t require them. Though if they were required for under-18 it’s hard to argue against that.

I see that council is again considering 25 mph on Lake. Good move. I’m even coming to like the bike lane a little bit. My understanding is that scooters and Class 1 and 2 ebikes will use the lane, and Class 3 ebikes would be required to use the street itself and cannot use the lane. I’ve been passed by Class 3 bikes doing 25mph and they belong nowhere near the bike lane.

Another random thought. Cleveland has floated the idea of using the sidewalk/treelawn on Lake Road (north side) between 117th and Edgewater Park for a 10’ wide pedestrian/bicycle path. I think the homeowners there who are resisting are doing themselves and others a disservice. I think there will be plenty of future homeowners who will consider that kind of a neat amenity. And it makes so much sense, it connects Edgewater Park with Lakewood and westward.

Did you know that Ohio has the most miles of bike trail of any state in the country? (Click here.) We’re very fortunate here in Lakewood to have good access especially east to Edgewater, Whiskey Island, Wendy Park and over the new bridge to the Cleveland Centennial trail and beyond. Also to the Metropark trail that goes south. I kind of presume that scooters will use such trails too, though scooters may be more inclined for errand running and such.

Finally, there’s been some talk about safety. My rule for not getting hit on my bike, which does apply somewhat to scooters. If you don’t want to get hit, you have to be seen. And if you want to be seen by motorists you should be where other motorists are. One thing especially to avoid is zipping into crosswalks. BAD!!!! Fact is, bikes and electric scooters don’t belong on sidewalks. Also, when on the street, don’t ride too close to parked cars. It’s hard to be seen at driveways and intersections. That’s what I don’t like most about bike lanes but there are not a lot of parked cars on Lake except for around the Park at times. Madison should not have a bike lane.

If I think of something else I’ll come back….

[Dan Alaimo]

But how to protect very young people on scooters and then how to protect the city when they are inevitably injured?

[Mark Kindt]

A few more comments:

You can't fight "the future" whether it means a "pit" in the center of the City, or scooters left on your lawn, or the expansion of liquor service onto public property... --It is all going to happen anyway.

There is a kind of inevitability about all of this that seems to be embedded in the "vision" that the City has cultivated and promoted for itself. --"Vibrancy"

Most of this is generational...

I fought my share of battles in the public interest during my 30s. Now it's up to a younger generation about how they would like their society organized...

In the meantime, I make a point of driving both slowly, carefully, and mindfully...because it is my moral duty to protect the lives of others.

[michael gill]

Thanks for driving that way, Mark. Cars are dangerous.

[Mark Kindt]

More Comments On The Electric Scooter Experiment

1. They are being used on sidewalks in addition to streets.

2. They are being ridden with two riders at a time.

3. As a pedestrian, I have to watch for them behind me and coming at me even when I am doing something as safe as walking.

I didn't know they were made for sidewalk use.

[Amy Martin]

I was on my morning walk this past Wednesday when I saw a boy - no older than 12 - starting to use his phone and debit card to mount a scooter that was parked at the corner of Madison and Wyandotte. I yelled across the street at him, "Hey, do you know you're supposed to be 18 to use one of those things?" He yelled back, "I am 18" to which I said (as I called on my phone), "well, let's just get a policeman here to verify your age". With that, he dropped the scooter on its side and ran south on Wyandotte. Seriously, this kid was probably 10 or 11 years old.

I walk 45 miles a week on Lakewood streets with earbuds in so that I can listed to music. Twice already, I had scooters that zipped right past me on the sidewalk which startled me since I didn't hear them approaching. Mind you - I have a heart condition and also have a defibrilator implant, so getting startled can cause my heart rate to rise dangerously. Both times, the scooters were going, in my best estimate based on car traffic, at least 25 mph. This is so dangerous to any pedestrian who is rightfully using the sidewalk.

When I contacted City Hall, I was told to call the 800 number on any of the scooters to file a complaint. . . . isn't this the same as the fox guarding the henhouse? Isn't it the responsibility of the City and Law Enforcement to enforce the laws and codes that are on the books for this type of behavior? Seriously, CALL THE SCOOTER COMPANY is what I was told.

Unfortunately, it is going to take a serious accident for something to be done about enforcement. With school starting this week, I am afraid that something bad will happen sooner rather than later.

[Mark Kindt]

More Comments On The Electric Scooter Experiment

1. They are being used on sidewalks in addition to streets.

2. They are being ridden with two riders at a time.

3. As a pedestrian, I have to watch for them behind me and coming at me even when I am doing something as safe as walking.

I didn't know they were made for sidewalk use.

Aside from the electric scooter experiment, please be on the lookout for motorized skateboards and motorized bicycles.

The skateboards really, really fly.

The electric scooters get dumped all over the place.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I was on my morning walk this past Wednesday when I saw a boy - no older than 12 - starting to use his phone and debit card to mount a scooter that was parked at the corner of Madison and Wyandotte. I yelled across the street at him, "Hey, do you know you're supposed to be 18 to use one of those things?" He yelled back, "I am 18" to which I said (as I called on my phone), "well, let's just get a policeman here to verify your age". With that, he dropped the scooter on its side and ran south on Wyandotte. Seriously, this kid was probably 10 or 11 years old.

I walk 45 miles a week on Lakewood streets with earbuds in so that I can listed to music. Twice already, I had scooters that zipped right past me on the sidewalk which startled me since I didn't hear them approaching. Mind you - I have a heart condition and also have a defibrilator implant, so getting startled can cause my heart rate to rise dangerously. Both times, the scooters were going, in my best estimate based on car traffic, at least 25 mph. This is so dangerous to any pedestrian who is rightfully using the sidewalk.

When I contacted City Hall, I was told to call the 800 number on any of the scooters to file a complaint. . . . isn't this the same as the fox guarding the henhouse? Isn't it the responsibility of the City and Law Enforcement to enforce the laws and codes that are on the books for this type of behavior? Seriously, CALL THE SCOOTER COMPANY is what I was told.

Unfortunately, it is going to take a serious accident for something to be done about enforcement. With school starting this week, I am afraid that something bad will happen sooner rather than later.

Amy

Fill under for whatever it is worth.

The biggest problem I see, and it is a big one, is how they interact with handicapped people, especially the blind.

As far as it will take an accident, we are nearly 10 years behind the wave on this. I am sure they keep lawyers busy.

I mentioned this earlier, and I believe it has helped scooter issues of old. The companies offer a good reward for picking up, recharging and placing a scooter or bike back in a designated square.

At the Machine Gun Kelly concert, there were thousands of scooter left on Lakeside, by people that traveled from cities away, or the land of cheaper parking on scooters. After the concert, they all went back to wherever.

So they save energy, create jobs, some fun, and travel for those without a car. But create problems with safety, nuisances, disorder.

[Mark Kindt]

Questions for Jim O'Bryan:

Is Lakewood really safer with motorized scooters or other motorized personal transportation devices?

Aren't the manufacturers and related businesses "free-riding" on taxpayer funded transportation infrastructure, including our public safety infrastructure?

Aren't they also "free-riding" on our state mandated automobile liability infrastructure.

From my perspective this is another planning experiment like extending liquor permits onto public property.

And, it shouldn't take an accident for us to get real about these risks.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Questions for Jim O'Bryan:

1) Is Lakewood really safer with motorized scooters or other motorized personal transportation devices?

2) Aren't the manufacturers and related businesses "free-riding" on taxpayer funded transportation infrastructure, including our public safety infrastructure?

3) Aren't they also "free-riding" on our state mandated automobile liability infrastructure.

4) From my perspective this is another planning experiment like extending liquor permits onto public property.

5) And, it shouldn't take an accident for us to get real about these risks.

Mark I took the liberty of numbering your questions.

1 - No, but I think the actual risk is minimal, and worth a try.

2) - Yes beyond a shadow of a doubt. A question I raised with the Director of the Library, if they are no underwriting something, get it off the property. I feel the same is true for the City. Mark you were not online here in the early days. One of the biggest questions I raised over the AT&T Uverse deal with Lakewood. I raise such a stink AT&T cancled their full page ads with the Lakewood Observer. AT&T Uverse boxes take up a lot of space. Space that other TV providers do not need. AT&T should pay, I believe that is true. I also think RTA gets off easy, along with other for profit businesses using Lakewood city property.

3) I suppose, but the level of damage except in extreme circumstances should be much less. But you are right. At the same time they are not giving up liability, so????

4) I would say no, but I understand your point of view. I actually feel the encroachment and dependency on drinking in this town is out of hand. And I drink.

5) As I said to Amy Martin, these are not new, and it has been a major success from all I read in other cities. We shall see how it works here.

Today in my early morning lap of the city I did notice a bunch of scooters everywhere. I am also seeing a relaxed view of motor scooters and where they park. Yesterday there was one, on the sidewalk and in the crosswalk area. It was parked over the grate for blind people. Is this a relax in overall laws, who knows.

I was pulled over yesterday for turning from a Right lane, at a stop after stopping. I was told I drove through a parking space right before the corner that was empty. After a discussion of laws and enforcement, and clarification. The very polite police officer told me to be careful, and he was watching.

?

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[Mark Kindt]

I'm sure this all will take some adaptation time.

One went whizzing by me while I was waiting to turn right at an intersection and I was surprised by its speed and how unexpected it was for me.

Also, two scooters parked at the booze-garden today.

So, two of my pet peeves in action...

That's my report.

[Mark Kindt]

I'm sure this all will take some adaptation time.

One went whizzing by me while I was waiting to turn right at an intersection and I was surprised by its speed and how unexpected it was for me.

Also, two scooters parked at the booze-garden today.

So, two of my pet peeves in action...

That's my report.

If I had made a "rolling" stop this would have most likely resulted in a fatality with its dire consequences. I don't make this point lightly.

These scooters have much more speed that you would ever expect.

Motorized bicycles present the same problem.