Welcome to Pottersville

[tkmbuckley]

Corey,

I was just wondering. If you have so much knowledge and so much to say regarding city issues, why do you not attend council meetings? Or do you feel more comfortable, just talking trash on the internet? One final question, how old are you, really?

Quote from Benjamin Franklin 1706 - 1790

"We Are All Born Ignorant
But One Must Work Hard
To Remain Stupid"

Therese

[Corey Rossen]

Corey,

I was just wondering. If you have so much knowledge and so much to say regarding city issues, why do you not attend council meetings? Or do you feel more comfortable, just talking trash on the internet? One final question, how old are you, really?

Quote from Benjamin Franklin 1706 - 1790

"We Are All Born Ignorant
But One Must Work Hard
To Remain Stupid"

Therese

Huh? Not sure when I claimed to know City issues? I came into this like many others with a ton of questions, mainly pointing against getting rid of the hospital. I inquired about economic development and what the "next best thing" would be if not the hospital.

To answer honestly...I have other obligations during Council sessions, though I have been to (maybe 2) meetings about 5 years ago.

Talking trash is a great comment on your part, do you read the filth put out by some of the people trying to save the hospital - they would be a PR firms worst nightmare to represent. I don't think I am talking trash, but comments against me definitely keep me entertained.

How old are you? What is your favorite color? Paper or plastic? Innie or outie? Is OJ guilty? Which Batman actor was best? Save the hospital or get rid of it? Observation Deck a dying waste of time or cutting edge cyber bullying?

Love you tagline quote...how's my tagline?

[m buckley]

Just for the sake of accuracy and accountability there appears to be a tkmbuckley on this site who's views may or may not reflect my own, but who is not me. This is a bit of a strange coincidence and I thought I'd draw attention to it now.

[Jim Kenny]

Isn't electing not to vote part of having the right to vote? No one can compel me to vote or not to vote. Every one of us knows that when we exercise our constitutional right to "not" to vote that we are endorsing whatever outcome that the majority believes is best for the entire electorate. Thus, any decision made by the majority has the weight of non-voting population behind it. This principle is what has made our republic effective for +200 years. Maybe not perfect, but effective. Our method of governing is less effective, however, when the minority of voters doesn't respect this principle and works to impose their will on the majority.

After nearly 12 months of debating, the only question now that needs to be considered is what's best for Lakewood as a whole? The answer is defined by do we get behind the will of the majority or do we ask the majority to somehow see the same old, tired reasons for defiance in a new light?

[Michael Deneen]

If Mr. Potter had hired a silver-tongued PR man to peddle his plans, he would have gotten the Building and Loan.
He should have printed his own fake newspaper, too.

[Lori Allen _]

Maybe he should have made friends at the county!

[m buckley]

Jim Kenny said: " After nearly twelve months of debating, the only question now that needs to be considered is what's best for Lakewood as a whole. The answer is defined by do we get behind the will of the majority or do we ask the majority to somehow see the same old tired reasons for defiance in a new light?"
Jim, help me out here, did I miss 12 months of the City Council debating the merits of this deal in an open and transparent manner? Because the image I'm left with is Ms. Madigan time and time again leading an all to willing City Council, behind close doors to broker a deal away from public comment, away from public scrutiny.
As for "the will of the majority" and how they handle the "defiance" of their neighbors, I could care less.I stand opposed to the lies,to the manipulations,to the complete lack of transparency that has now defined the Summers administration for a number of years. I will continue to exercise my right to do so, because if there is one thing I know it's that "the will of the majority" should never be used to silence opposition or to coerce conformity.

[Brian Essi]

Isn't electing not to vote part of having the right to vote? No one can compel me to vote or not to vote. Every one of us knows that when we exercise our constitutional right to "not" to vote that we are endorsing whatever outcome that the majority believes is best for the entire electorate. Thus, any decision made by the majority has the weight of non-voting population behind it. This principle is what has made our republic effective for +200 years. Maybe not perfect, but effective. Our method of governing is less effective, however, when the minority of voters doesn't respect this principle and works to impose their will on the majority.

After nearly 12 months of debating, the only question now that needs to be considered is what's best for Lakewood as a whole? The answer is defined by do we get behind the will of the majority or do we ask the majority to somehow see the same old, tired reasons for defiance in a new light?

Jim

This is the sadest thing I've seen from you yet.

The notion that the majority is right would have led to slavery being the law of the land.

Please rethink what you wrote. Surely you did not mean it.

[Jim Kenny]

Brian, certainly in another age I would need to rethink. We are now in a different, more informed age. The comparison that you're making is irrelevant. Convenient. Yet irrelevant. I've participated in numerous debates here and elsewhere on the merits of the deal the City successfully negotiated with CCF. Given the numbers of those who watched these debates and didn't participate in these discussions, I have good reason to believe they made a rational decision and voted or not voted, accordingly. In fact, we can all have this faith. It's what makes our democracy work and it's what helped our society move away from slavery, which was a practice that was as old as man and one that preceded the founding of our nation.

[Pam Wetula]

Jim Kenny,

Brian Essi is correct.

If the majority vote always prevailed without being challenged, the Civil rights of minorities would not have been granted, women would not vote, women would not have credit in their own names and buy their own cars and homes. The schools would totally be segregated. All the Nurses would be women and all the Truck Drivers would be men. The list of modern day advances that resulted from citizen's questioning authority, their elected officials and the validity of majority votes on important issues is long and I do not have the time right now to list them all.

The deal the city spent 11 months on while continually telling the public that they were doing "their due diligence" is NOT in the best interests of Lakewood. It reduces our healthcare options, it ties the hands of future elected officials to fix that, it gives away our assets for a pittance and was put together behind closed doors. So much so that 3 armed policemen made the citizens move out of the Lakewood City Auditorium on December 7th, 2015 so the City could have a press conference & tell the media what they had decided BEFORE they told the citizens & BEFORE the whole contract was written.

Brian Essi offered $10 million for the 850 Columbia Rd, Westlake property $1.8 million MORE than CCF. The behind the door deal had already been agreed on. Does that make sense? The City Council took what the CCF offered out of THEIR FEAR. They had NOT gone in search of other options as requested for 11 months. This deal needs to be challenged. Issue 64 lost by 4% of the vote although the other side spent onwards of $50,000 versus Right to Votes $6,000. The number of people that still want a hospital is very large,.

Putting this to a vote is the right thing to do.

Respectfully,

pam wetula

[Michael Deneen]

Vilification of the judicial branch has been a cornerstone of the "Team Summers" message throughout the past year.
They want the public to ignore that the judicial branch was set up as one of three equal branches of the government for a reason.

In addition to the examples listed by Pam and Brian, Gay Marriage is another issue where the legal branch played a huge part.
Anti-gay measures were passed by the voters in dozens of states over the past 15 years.
Ohio was one of those states in 2004.
It was legal action that exposed the stupidity of these measures, allowing gay marriage in some states.
As more people became familiar with the issue, they softened their stance and became more accepting of gay and lesbian people.

Looking back, a lot of Ohioan voters realize they made a mistake in 20004. (I believe the proper term is that they "evolved on the issue".)
If LH closes, I have no doubt that Lakewood voters will look back in ten years and realize that they also made a mistake on the hospital issue.

[Brian Essi]

Brian, certainly in another age I would need to rethink. We are now in a different, more informed age. The comparison that you're making is irrelevant. Convenient. Yet irrelevant. I've participated in numerous debates here and elsewhere on the merits of the deal the City successfully negotiated with CCF. Given the numbers of those who watched these debates and didn't participate in these discussions, I have good reason to believe they made a rational decision and voted or not voted, accordingly. In fact, we can all have this faith. It's what makes our democracy work and it's what helped our society move away from slavery, which was a practice that was as old as man and one that preceded the founding of our nation.

Jim,

In a different age? Last I checked the US Constitution still exists.

With all due respect, you had "good reason to believe" that the CCF FHC was a "hospital."

It seems to me that your belief about what people are "thinking" and "why" they vote as being "informed age" are really speculation wrapped around conjecture.

How do you call getting 20 cents on the dollar "success"?

You owe me that coffee because the Master Agreement is objectively worse than the LOI by millions---anyone who says otherwise has not read the agreements, does not understand them or is not a truth teller.
I count Bill Gorton in all three categories.

Why has everyone at Bleed Lakewood gone silent when it comes to a discussion the actual terms and conditions of the Master Agreement?

"There's no fool, like an old fool."

[Jim Kenny]

Michael, you are correct that I am repeating someone else’s message. It’s Nickie Antonio’s. She said as much at the Dec. 21 City Council meeting. It’s her expectation that Lakewood’s citizens will come together to acknowledge Council’s hard work by getting behind their collective decision or getting out of the way.

Pam, I appreciate your passion and good intentions. I suspect, however, that these are blinding you to the fact that these tired arguments that you’ve regurgitated again have proven false in the court of public opinion. This was evidenced at the voting polls in November where every issue was somehow defined by the hospital, even school board, which its most outspoken candidates and BL supporters had the most sweeping success. These arguments also failed again with the recent Skindell lawsuit to prevent the council’s 12/21 vote. The judge called these claims “rumors and hearsay.” To now perpetuate these again in 2016 and at more taxpayer expense is simply selfish.

Brian, I’ll gladly buy you a coffee, despite the fact this deal is better than the LOI; it’s just not an inpatient hospital. If you’re sincere about wanting to understand the difference between your valuation of the assets and what was decided by two negotiating teams, maybe you should invest at least a quarter of the same effort critiquing your methods. You might discover you don’t have the full breadth of information necessary and this shortcoming is biasing your assessment

For instance, you were willing to guarantee $10 million dollar payment for the hospital’s Westlake property after it had been valued by an independent, third party as being worth only $6.8 million. If you had better information, you would have been less likely to make such a sensational offer, especially knowing that the transaction would do nothing to change the fate of the hospital.

Lastly, you are correct that the good and civic-minded members of Build Lakewood have been silent since the Council voted to replace the hospital with a state-of-the-art ER, a well-funded foundation dedicated to the healthcare needs of Lakewood citizens, and the opening of the endless opportunities that the hospital real estate offers once reimagined and repurposed. We’ve been quiet out of respect for our neighbors who feel the loss of the hospital. We recognize the goodwill they’ve invested. We’re attempting to honor them, even when being called on and challenged to debate issues that have already been decided. We do so because of our desire to help our community move forward.

[Michael Deneen]

I suspect, however, that these are blinding you to the fact that these tired arguments that you’ve regurgitated again have proven false in the court of public opinion. This was evidenced at the voting polls in November where every issue was somehow defined by the hospital, even school board, which its most outspoken candidates and BL supporters had the most sweeping success.

There he goes again.
Those arguments are FACTS. Facts are not subject "the court of public opinion".
For example, if a majority of GOP voters think that Obama was born in Kenya, that doesn't make it true.

When able to outspend their opposition ten to one, people can sell all sorts of lies to the pubic.

[Lori Allen _]

I think this post has run its' course!