Who will fight for Lakewood's interests?

[Patrick Slife]

I apologize for the secondary post.

The raw sewage that was reported near our shores is not entirely the Lakewood WWTP's fault. There are numerous plants that discharge into the Rocky River. With a concentration of plants discharging plant overflows into the same area, a higher concentration will be present. It is that same at any river, unless they have alternate sources of effluent treatment. Lakewood's WWTP does not discharge directly into the Rocky River. There is a pipe system that sends the discharge out into the lake. (Mr. Hoffert, how far out?)

Until these holding facilities are built, the discharge of overflows will continue. These overflows are required by EPA permit to be tested for their contents. One disadvantage to a system taht overflows storm water into waste sewers.

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
There are many other places where we could go green in Lakewood (eg our public schools) but since we are talking about the sewer plant let me ask to following:

Mr. Slife thought that to make our sewage treatment run on renewable energy we would need to scrape our existing plant and build a new one. Well, I was thinking that the electric needs of our existing sewer plant is very close to the capacity of 1 commercial scale Windmill. So, could we not use our existing plant as is but connect it to a windmill out on Lake Erie? It could be cross connected to the grid so if the windmill produced energy not needed by the plant it could be placed on the grid. And if the plant needed more energy that the windmill was generating it could take conventional power from the grid.

Regarding that smell, is it methane? Isn't that energy we can use? Look at this picture: see full cow gas trapping article at http://www.gadgetreview.com/2008/07/cow ... -tank.html If Betsy can carry that around on her back day in and day out, could we use a dome to trap that valuable but smelly gas and reuse it to burn something inside the plant? I don't know but seems possible.

Finally, the raw sewage I was referring to was near Lakewood Park someplace clearly in Lakewood's domain.

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
Thank you Mr. Page for your math on the stimulus package. So, if Lakewood gets $40 million worth of projects we have broken even. We could possible get more and let some other City win the moral high ground while Lakewood wallows in jobs, revenues and infrastructure. (I hope)

Something to consider:
A typical commercial windmill costs $3.5 million and produces 2MW. That's 2007 numbers (see: http://www.windustry.org/how-much-do-wind-turbines-cost So, for $40 million we can get 11,5 (how do you split a windmill?) So, Let go for 12 windmills at an estimated cost of $42 million (see we are helping those other Cities that don't want the stimulus money already!). That will give Lakewood 24MW of clear renewable energy that we can use year in and year out for just the cost of maintenance. How much energy does Lakewood need? Maybe, our Mayor would be put in the same situation as Sarah Palin where he would have to issue dividend checks to residents with the money made from the overage. How tough would it be to get reelected if you eliminated City taxes and issued refunds instead? I smell dynasty.

[Bill Call]

If we believe the hype the proposed spending will generate 10 million jobs in a state with 11 million people.

Source please....

My source is the Plain Dealer. Read the article.

Still waiting for you to link the PD article...

The link to the PD article is in my second post. If it makes things easier here it is again:

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/

[Patrick Slife]

The methane produced by the aerobic and anaerobic Digesters is contained and used to fuel the heat exchangers that maintain the sludge temperatures to ensure of proper sludge digestion (breakdown). The heat exchangers are giant boilers that, as a dual purpose, also heat the water for the heating of the buildings. The gas prduced in the qinter is immediately used, and the gas in the summer is used less, and then excess is burned off into the atmosphere. If you have noticed, and it is near impossible to not notice, there is a large silver storage ball at the plant. This was used until 1986 to store the excess gas. I have not worked there since 1986, and have never received a definitive answer as to why the storage ball is not used.

I can imagine that having a huge exposed stash of pressurized methane in their back yards wouldn't be too pleasing to nearby resisdents, including those closest to the facility in Rocky River. They fight our city on the dog park, and would have a coronary over pressurized methane.

I do believe that the Operator of Record at the plant has looked into the prospect of running pumps and machinery directly from methane. This has been a new movement at newer plants. But unfortunately, Lakewood has little industry, and not enough population waste coming into the plant to sustain such a system. There are different types of waste that can sustain these operations, but Lakewood does not have them present.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Don

I would still rather wait a couple years on windmills. The technology is making such advances, along with energy cells. I have to think even a couple years gets us better windmills at a cheaper price.

A better use would be the peninsula, that would create new valuable taxable land, access to the lakefront that could be usable by all, and create a destination for many many people to come to. I have to think the retail part of the project would need to be scaled back, but I could still see it generating millions a year in taxes, and increasing the property values of all Lakewoodites. It was a very well known realtor that pointed out to me once that if we had real access to the lake property values could go up 10% - 20%. It would seem that our neighbors members of Clifton Beach do not want to invite the city, so this would be the only other way to create city wide value easily.

Mayor Ed FitzGerald

I would hope you would look long and hard at spending any money coming to Lakewood. With the needed but drastic cuts, and leaning down of city services, now us taking trash to the curb, I would hate to see this squandered on things that do not bring long term "relief" to the city. Over the past 10 years I have seen some really crazy plans come forward, many backed by previous administrations, and many by people/groups that seemed lost or totally driven by one war cry "we need any development."

Doubles to singles, makes no sense and as some of us had said for over a decade, "the rental market is coming back" and it has, and Lakewood is perfectly placed to cash in.

"Lifestyle malls" one mayor had asked the city to approve $20 million to give the developers, even after the developers were found in default of another city for $25 million. Many said, retail is dying, but this group reformed to hammer home the need for malls, and economic development in a city. Today the last planning director has claimed the failure of that "debacle" as one who was pushing it now calls it, saved the city from filing bankruptcy, and at a minimum of losing an additional $20 million in taxes.

Tearing down the property leading in from the West and attempting to build one still born "Folly" while according to rumors from some, stopping another hotel being built to close to WSL. "You would be able to see it from here, and it could create traffic from as many as 50 cars a day coming by."

Even the "Grow Lakewood Report" actually a powerpoint presentation, has grown old and outdated and needs to be seriously reevaluated. While that group looked at and came out with a solid idea of, retail dead, office space the way to go, has fallen by the way side. The fastest growing area of software development is "collaborative" software allowing people to work from home, as office space goes the way of retail space.

My personal suggestion would be these group(s) would not be looked at for deciding, as they all seemed to miss the obvious, while others seemed to see a clear path to the future that could have put Lakewood in a very nice place today, and into the future.

I also wonder of some very mundane projects hanging over our heads like the sewer project on Clifton that was $50 million three years ago, and I had understood came with a drop dead completion date, and a $10,000 a day fine from the EPA for not completing it on time. Could the $40 million be used for that, if not the visionary peninsula?

It would break down to $2,000 for every front door, with many being condos and apartments, maybe $4,000 which coupled with bulk purchases, could be used to bring every home back to presentable. Coupled with Historic Designation, the $4,000 would come up to $8,000 which could be used to make Lakewood historical appealing, bring all homes up to snuff, and make Lakewood clean safe and fun. A perfect place to live, and raise a family on the North Coast.

As for the $1 million, make sure it goes to a group that is actually accountable to the tax payers of Lakewood, and would be willing to answer questions, as you do, to all who ask. A group that does not belittle some Lakewoodites, while acting like they are gifted Gods, even though their biggest success is co-opting the success of others. Make sure it is a group that can be accountable without the need for sending people on "treasure hunts" only to find fools gold at the end. That spends money in Lakewood first, and does not squander it paying as much as $62,000 for a single item, that three Lakewood firms would have done for free, or in blind quotes as much as $300. Yes that is not a typo, $300.

If we are to cut elsewhere, we must be very careful how we spend the $1 mill, and especially the $40 mill. I would agree, if it is being spent, better here then anywhere else. Please use the same stringent guidelines, that has made you the mayor of fiscal responsibility, instead of the fool of nepotism, cronism and peer pressure.

As always, thank you for your hard work, in a tough era.

.

[sharon kinsella]

Isn't the Cliffs part of the dead West End Project?

That eyesore is a tribute to those who wanted the West End project.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Isn't the Cliffs part of the dead West End Project?

That eyesore is a tribute to those who wanted the West End project.

Sharon

The Cliffs was not an official part of the WestEnd project. Though Rick Foran of the Foran Group(not Jay Foran founder of LakewoodAlive. I would never hold Jay responsible for the actions of his brother.) gave me tons(an overstatement) of paperwork, all signed by Mayor Cain, that would indicate it could at least be considered the non-existent Phase II.

I would also like to say that I saw the Cliffs as a very good idea to develop the riverfront and lakefront, two parts of Lakewood severely underdeveloped and areas that could bring real economic relief to Lakewood if developed.

However the idea would need a credible developer to be in anyway successful at this point.

I would also be careful to label the "WestEnd Project" dead considering recent events.

.

[Charlie Page]

Here is a web site that details some of the spending proposals:

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/

If we believe the hype the proposed spending will generate 10 million jobs in a state with 11 million people. Judging from the polls most people believe the hype. God help us.

Did anyone notice that our school system requested $75 mill for Phase 3 construction? This is good news! However, since the State of Ohio is controlling how the stimulus money is doled out, I wonder how or if this will affect the dollar amount of assistance the State BOE has allocated for Phase 3. Are they going to play a numbers game by decreasing the BOE assistance but end up giving us the same amount and calling the balance stimulus money?

Lakewood City Schools
Cuyahoga County
Phase III Building Project-Designing Our Next 50 Y

Demolish/rebuild and/or renovate two or three elementary school buildings of approximately 65,000-75,000 square feet each, and demolish/rebuild the east end of the community's lone high school (approximately 247,000 square feet). Â The project is anticipated to last approximately 24 months.

I’m also wondering if 8 billion is the only chunk of stimulus money given to Ohio? In other words, is there a separate amount to help with the State budget deficit and this 8 billion gets distributed to cities? If not, I bet the State keeps 3-4 billion to cover its behind and doles out the rest.

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
Regarding windmills, Mr. O'Bryan stated:

"I would still rather wait a couple years on windmills. The technology is making such advances, along with energy cells. I have to think even a couple years gets us better windmills at a cheaper price. "

But please also consider cost to Lakewood to do this via stimulus package dollars is $0.00 now. Cost to do it in a few years at a cheaper cost per windmill $ 31,500,000 if in a few years they cost 25% less. So, we have a unique opportunity to act on this now versus several years from now.

PS. Sheffield Lake (in a small way) is going to bat for this very thing. See: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03 ... turbi.html. Could that dynasty smell have drifted in the wind to me from Sheffield Lake?

PPSS. I agree with you Mr. O'Bryan regarding the peninsula. Could it be put in a shovel-ready state quick enough to utilize the stimulus dollars? I would suggest going for it and see.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I agree with you Mr. O'Bryan regarding the peninsula. Could it be put in a shovel-ready state quick enough to utilize the stimulus dollars? I would suggest going for it and see.

I would hope that windmills get no stimulus dollars.

However I believe that enough study had been done on the peninsula to get it shovel ready within the framework, and unlike windmills creates jobs, and serious $$$$$$ for Lakewood and the state's future.

But will they even consider something that good, and bold?


.

[Patrick Slife]

Mr O'B...

I feel that the 'penisula' program is a waste of money. If other cities are considered in our area, no other community has made as fiscally dicey a plan as the proposed 'peninsula' as Lakewood.

I understand that the marina and land involved are lucretive ventures. Before the economic crunch, I still moved west while seeking dockage and storage of my boat. And I still found beter fishing/destinations away from this area. So if Lakewood builds this one of a kind peninsula, can even be close to comparable to established areas along the lakeshore?

I know that boating is one of the first "luxury" expenses to go during economic strife. But should Lakewood really be banking on this source be a savior first, while thinking of Lakewood's future? Luxury items and lifestyles are last to make a rebound.

I am fortunate to have been debt free in this area. And I still a ready to stay where I am. For fishing, recreation and leisure, the new peninsula is not even a choice.

This has been one of my major problems with the 'holiness' of this project in the first place. I am not docked at Emerald Neckalce for more than the cost issue.

Other than drunken idiots in what is let of the Flats, what is there around here? The fishing is west and east of Cleveland, and there are no destinations near this area.

I think that this project may be a bad choice.

[Dustin James]

However I believe that enough study had been done on the peninsula to get it shovel ready within the framework, and unlike windmills creates jobs, and serious $$$$$$ for Lakewood and the state's future.

But will they even consider something that good, and bold?

.

Not to throw water on a hot idea, I think the Peninsula is a beautiful concept. It is a truly and awesome design.

But I was thinking about the devastating winters and weather in general on the lake. Had it been there in 1969, it would have been flattened. The tornado of independence day. http://www.lkwdpl.org/lore/lore165.htm

I live within 15 miles of a coastal area in Florida. Few remember that if Andrew had drifted just 25 miles north and hit Miami/Ft. Lauderdale that the death toll and damage would have been beyond comprehension. As bad as it was, those condos and dense populations were spared. This is not the same by any means, but anything at lake level, on the lake will be wide open to damage. Just like anywhere on water (New Orleans is below sea level).

If you carved a port inland into the park where there was protection and extended some fingers outward into the lake, maybe you'd have some protection, otherwise, these investors might as well be on houseboats. Just an observation with respect to things like mother nature. IMHO only.

.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Not to throw water on a hot idea, I think the Peninsula is a beautiful concept. It is a truly and awesome design.

.

Dustin

Winter is not as bad as it used to be.

The peninsula answered many problems that many groups had identified and
were troubled over. The largest, was Lakewood is built out. As such when ever you do something it HAS to make at least the same impact as it does now. This makes everything much tougher to pull off.

In Cleveland and in many cities, there are hundreds if not thousands of acres sitting vacant, or can be rebuilt denser than it is now. This makes the equation easier for any development. Hence adding acreage made sense.

There were others looking for economic development, retail and shopping. This handled that as well as more high end living area. The impact was a very large plus, for very little cost. One developer thought the cost was under $50 million with it creating $250 - $500 million in new taxable land, jobs, and even more importantly a real 10% - 20% increase in all property values with Lakewoodites getting access to the lake. The only other way to accomplish a net gain even close to that across the city would be to make Clifton Beach public.

As a lakefront community we have very little access to the lake. I would measure the access in hundreds of feet, not even yards. So besides the marina, we got the beach on the back end of the waves, and protected from elements, making it safe, and self maintaining.

While the design is nice, and it was the nicest of all the projects at Cleveland Institute of Art on that night, it is the notebooks of work and interviews that was even more impressive. While we hear of groups knowing Lakewood better, that others, I have seen nothing that compares to the hard work Savannah put into this. I was lucky, it was on display at the LO offices for a couple months, so I was able to spend time going over the many, many notebooks of interviews, studies, questions and answers that went into this project.

I suppose that when you read the depth, and know that other cities on the lake came up with their own peninsulas, and stood and talked with the developers that came through the LO offices, you get a little jaded. Honestly the only comment to the negative I ever heard was from Bob Stark, the Crocker Park developer that thought it should be two to three times larger!

The other sobering thought was that it would have cost the city nothing in the long run. Build it and it pays for itself, and all other developments to the park and city. I could go one as I know far too much about the project, and that the city gave Savannah about 15 minutes to present it, and a "what a nice girl" as a thank you.

oh well.


.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Not to throw water on a hot idea, I think the Peninsula is a beautiful concept. It is a truly and awesome design.

.

Dustin

Winter is not as bad as it used to be.

The peninsula answered many problems that many groups had identified and
were troubled over. The largest, was Lakewood is built out. As such when ever you do something it HAS to make at least the same impact as it does now. This makes everything much tougher to pull off.

In Cleveland and in many cities, there are hundreds if not thousands of acres sitting vacant, or can be rebuilt denser than it is now. This makes the equation easier for any development. Hence adding acreage made sense.

There were others looking for economic development, retail and shopping. This handled that as well as more high end living area. The impact was a very large plus, for very little cost. One developer thought the cost was under $50 million with it creating $250 - $500 million in new taxable land, jobs, and even more importantly a real 10% - 20% increase in all property values with Lakewoodites getting access to the lake. The only other way to accomplish a net gain even close to that across the city would be to make Clifton Beach public.

As a lakefront community we have very little access to the lake. I would measure the access in hundreds of feet, not even yards. So besides the marina, we got the beach on the back end of the waves, and protected from elements, making it safe, and self maintaining.

While the design is nice, and it was the nicest of all the projects at Cleveland Institute of Art on that night, it is the notebooks of work and interviews that was even more impressive. While we hear of groups knowing Lakewood better, that others, I have seen nothing that compares to the hard work Savannah put into this. I was lucky, it was on display at the LO offices for a couple months, so I was able to spend time going over the many, many notebooks of interviews, studies, questions and answers that went into this project.

I suppose that when you read the depth, and know that other cities on the lake came up with their own peninsulas, and stood and talked with the developers that came through the LO offices, you get a little jaded. Honestly the only comment to the negative I ever heard was from Bob Stark, the Crocker Park developer that thought it should be two to three times larger!

The other sobering thought was that it would have cost the city nothing in the long run. Build it and it pays for itself, and all other developments to the park and city. I could go one as I know far too much about the project, and that the city gave Savannah about 15 minutes to present it, and a "what a nice girl" as a thank you.

oh well.

Patrick was not ignoring you, and your points are well taken.

.