New Curfew Law

[Gary Rice]

OK...OK...Just STOP IT! Good GRIEF!

Now let's just STOP all this worrying for a minute.

Lakewood IS the same place it was, when I moved here in 1958!!!!!!!

We had "thugs" back then too, only they went by other nic-names.

Sorry Jim, it's true that we might once in awhile, be unsafe in Lakewood...but on the whole, you are right. It's a great place to live.

The truth is, that we all live in a densely packed urban environment that behaves itself surprisingly well, and is surprisingly safe, all things considered.

I've been all over this town, night and day, for the past 48 or so years. I was giving a free music lesson to a friend smack-dab in the middle of downtown Lakewood just the other night. Sure the young people in the area looked, well, original, but so did we oldsters so many years ago.

All went very well, as I knew it would.

I'm a musician. I used to be out at night quite a bit. Lakewood nights continue to be among the best-behaved evenings around.

Yes, it's theoretically possible to run into a problem anywhere. Generally though, if you stay aware, you can avoid many of those potential troubles.

I really wonder how much of this scare stuff is coming up just because it's a political year?

Remember Chicken Little and that stuff about the sky falling? Or the story of the boy who cried "Wolf"?

Gimme a break! Lakewood is Lakewood.

I've spoken off the record with several police officers, and those with whom I've spoken, agree; by no means is there a reason for unreasonable fear around here.

Oh yes...Mark, I know you've written about a citizens' committee and all, but consider this...Persons participating with that type of thing might be called as witnesses, have their names, addresses etc..appear in public court documents, have to testify in trials, or even perhaps, be sued for all kinds of things, ranging from invasion of privacy to defamation of character?

I would certainly get a legal opinion before starting up that kind of thing.

Everyone- please don't make bigger problems than there needs to be.

[Grace O'Malley]

Does anyone else think its a bit odd that both candidates for mayor claim crime is UP while the Chief of Police claims the contrary?

I will ask Councilman Demro (for about the 20th time) and councilman Fitzgerald the same question:

Can you support your claim that crime has increased with FACTS and STATISTICS?

If not, then I must agree with JOB that you are merely using scare tactics as a political tool and THAT is CRIMINAL!

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

My mom locks our doors and car doors at 11am on a sunny sunday afternoon. It makes me chuckle.

Theres also parents of my friends that won't let their 18 year old sons go as a group to indians games. Cleveland is soooooooo bad. haha.

The faces and things I've seen when working downtown remind me of just how great Lakewood is.

I agree Grace, there's really nothing to be afraid about. Lakewood is the same it was before, with a few more houses up for sale. I talked to my neighbor who's a realtor and sold us our house. I asked him how the market is and why are there so many houses up for sale and no one is buying. He explained that it was like this 8 years ago when european immigrants first moved here by the hundreds. everyone was scared and turned off by the idea, but things became normal after 2 years.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim-

You're misquoting me. I said that difficult decisions don't tend to get done in election years, but we owe it to residents to try and find solutions. The first step is admitting there's a real problem. I also didn't hear the mayor say that he's going to be leading a discussion; his consistent position has been that crime is down, as was re-iterated last night.

Crime is not down. It's up over the last few years, significantly in some categories. The statistics show it and the residents know it. We'll be having some committee hearings where all of the data we have will again be made public.

Ed

I am sorry about the misquote.

I was agreeing with you. No candidate wants to go into an election talking about higher taxes. I believe that was the point you were trying to make, and I applaud you for taking the 800lb Gorilla out of the corner.

Was it not chief Malley that also noted crime was down in the first quarter of this year over last?

I applaud every member of the city and council for talking about this and other tough issues in an election year.


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[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim-

You're misquoting me. I said that difficult decisions don't tend to get done in election years, but we owe it to residents to try and find solutions. The first step is admitting there's a real problem. I also didn't hear the mayor say that he's going to be leading a discussion; his consistent position has been that crime is down, as was re-iterated last night.

Crime is not down. It's up over the last few years, significantly in some categories. The statistics show it and the residents know it. We'll be having some committee hearings where all of the data we have will again be made public.

Ed

I am sorry about the misquote.

I was agreeing with you. No candidate wants to go into an election talking about higher taxes. I believe that was the point you were trying to make, and I applaud you for taking the 800lb Gorilla out of the corner.

Was it not chief Malley that also noted crime was down in the first quarter of this year over last?

I applaud every member of the city and council for talking about this and other tough issues in an election year.


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[Mark Crnolatas]

Gary,
Over the last 20 or 25 yrs I've helped or outright did the setup of several of these groups in various areas around Greater Cleveland. It just can't be thrown together of course, but there is a way to do it successfully.
There are far too many success stories for a group like this to be ignored, by those who actually want to contribute a small amount of time and effort.
We're talking SMALL amounts. Nothing major here. But, we'll see how it all goes. I'm not betting more than a package of popsicles that it can be done here, while it IS being done all over the country.

Mark Allan Crnolatas

[Joe Ott]

I've spoken off the record with several police officers, and those with whom I've spoken, agree; by no means is there a reason for unreasonable fear around here.

I did the same not too long ago. I got a different response.

Unreasonable fear? What's unreasonable. There's section 8 housing with what appears to be maybe thugs always hanging around, convicted rapists and convicted child molesters down the street so I wont' let my 15 year old walk by herself. Is that unreasonable fear? I don't want my 15 y.o. walking around downtown lkwd because an elderly women was beat up behind a bank, and man was robbed on Detroit near Alemeda blah blah blah. The list goes on. That's unreasonable fear? Please.

It would be silly to once again rehash all the crime. This is getting rather boring. Everybody banters back and forth but never a solution. I take that back, once in a while you get drive-by posts by councilmen announcing new laws to curb crime...

You want me to stop worrying? Give me a break.

[Jim O'Bryan]

It would be silly to once again rehash all the crime. This is getting rather boring. Everybody banters back and forth but never a solution. I take that back, once in a while you get drive-by posts by councilmen announcing new laws to curb crime...

Joe

Many solutions, but few jumping in.

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[Gary Rice]

Joe,

For there to be significant solutions, I would think there would need to be significant problems.

What's missing here. of course, are statistical abstracts supporting or refuting alleged increases or decreases in crime.

Without this data, I'm thinking that we're all believing what we want to, based on our personal bias or perceptions.

I offered a thread awhile back asking for a Lakewood think-tank for positive ideas.

It was tanked.

It only received 6 posts before meandering to the bottom-feeding world of "Observation Deck Past".

It seems that some on this 'Deck would rather stir it, than support it.

In my honest opinion, if the baloney on this 'Deck could be mined as a food source, we could feed the world....

Mark, with all due respect, do we really need cami-wearing pseudo-cops tramping on our rose beds? This is Lakewood. Have we really come to that?

[Joe Ott]

What's missing here. of course, are statistical abstracts supporting or refuting alleged increases or decreases in crime.

Baloney. Statistics can be read anyway any particular politician wants them to be read. I don't put a lot of faith into statistics nor the politician telling me when they have something to gain. I do however believe what I see and what people, who I believe and trust, tell me.

You did not answer my question. What's unreasonable fear?

[Grace O'Malley]

And who am I to believe?

Two politicians tell me "Be Afraid! Crime is UP!"

The Chief of Police reportedly claims crime is down.


I may be a cynic, but I'll believe the Chief before I believe two guys who are perpetually running for office.

I DO want facts and figures on crime yet despite repeated requests, I hear nothing from the two candidates who claim crime is up.

What exactly are they looking at to make those declarations? I'm entitled to see those stats, too. They are PUBLIC records, not some secret report.

Until I see the FACTS, I'm not letting anecdotal information determine my course of action.

[dl meckes]

Gary-

Mary Louise Madigan has been encouraging block watch goups. There was a CERT (Community Emergency Response Team) picnic last night and she was one of the attendees. She and the CERT leaders are supporting the idea that when block party permits are pulled, very local CERT members visit the parties and talk with people about what the CERT program is about and also spread the word about block watches.

This is a wonderful idea for a number of reasons. Our CERT training teaches us how to handle many emergencies, but the first rule is that we need to make sure we're ok, that our families are ok, and that our close neighbors are ok before we widen our circle of care. If I go to local block parties, I'll get to talk with more neighbors. Increasing communication is valuable.

When neighbors agree to keep an eye out for each other, good things happen. We don't have to walk the streets, we don't need to wear little outfits, etc., we just need to keep our eyes open and we need to communicate with each other and with the police.

That's not going to solve every problem, but it sure goes a long way towards having the type of community we want.

[Gary Rice]

Joe,

I'm not sure of where you are coming from.

Therefore, I'm not sure how to respond.

I would like to think of myself as a solution-oriented person. I would prefer to think in terms of reasonable caution, rather than unreasonable fear, in terms of my dealings whether in Lakewood, or anywhere else.

To me, "unreasonable fear" means exactly as implied. That is, fear not based on rationality or facts.

I return to my thinking regarding statistics. I'm not considering the type of statistics that can be easily skewed. I'm thinking of purely numerical quantitative reports.

I have not seen any numbers indicating that we are having the types of increasing problems that some people seem to think are transpiring.

But as you know of course, unfortunately statistics mean a lot to the one who is the statistic.

As for most of us in Lakewood however? In order to form an opinion, I think that most people would like to know as many facts as possible first.

I admire you're believing and trusting people, Joe, but wasn't it President Ronald Reagan who said "Trust, but verify?"

DL- In the context of a community trained, and recognized group of volunteer helpers, I think that can be a good thing. Mark, have you considered becoming a part of that group?

[Rick Uldricks]

deleted

[Joe Ott]

To me, "unreasonable fear" means exactly as implied. That is, fear not based on rationality or facts.

It's not rational for me to fear the safety of my teenage daughter or her friends? Or my teenage son? There are thugs hanging outside doubles/apartments on her way to Lkwd Park and it's not rational to fear for her safety? There are convicted child molesters around the corner and on her way to the high school, it's not rational to fear for her safety? The recent crime we've read about is not fact? Whatever. I see what I see.

Grace I will be surprised if you ever get an answer. Demro never did answer if he plans to have the entire police department outside the gates of the high school stadium to catch all the curfew breakers after football games...