New Curfew Law

[Jim O'Bryan]

Suzanne

A PS to my last message after reading yours.

Wrong, mispent and why.

This city is not so bad as we are losing it to crime. The library incident is no different than Denison coming down to beat up the Webb Gang of the 60s. No different at all, I really believe that was started because of one of them acting like an idiot at a perty on Denison as well.

However, there is crime building and happening all around us. This is one thing it pays to be ahead of the curve on. If the streets are not safe, then no one gets a chance to enjoy the icing on the cake like flower baskets, parties in the park, and walking in the walkable city.

The citizens are wrong because they are not fed the truth and are sometimes asked leading questions like that push poll. Knock on a door and have a stranger ask, "Do you feel safe?" I have to think in the era of ramped up faux terror the answer is no. Ask what they like about the city and what they do not like the answers become very different.

I also take exception to the comment that the Lakewood Observer is mine. Nothing is farther from the truth. This is a positive effort by the residents of Lakewood to work together. That an open honest discussion with people that not opnly care but are willing to take ownership of their ideas can move a city forward as a city.

As far as who is voting for who, and those with minds made up, please tell me who I am pulling the handle for? I have been to every Demro event except the young mixer, I have been to every Mayor Tom George event. I did not see you at any MTG event. I did see other Observers at both. I believe Ryan Demro has as much front page coverage as the mayor since the start of the paper. Of course the mayor and Ryan have been huge supporters of this project since its start. RPD was left on the front page of the website for an extra week as we upgraded the system. For you, working for Demro, to complain of bias from the Board or myself is crazy.


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[Mark Crnolatas]

Just putting my two cents worth into the thread addressing this to no one person, but to the general readers of the Deck.

I hate to be the one to say I told you so, but I've been posting that we get the police what they need, and become community active on the crime issue since the early days of me posting on the Buzz, and the whole time on the Deck.

JimOB and I used to talk about this when we first "met" on the Buzz, and again in person and again on the Deck. No use in doing a history talk here at this point but I stated over and over that this time would come. Here it is.

Playing politics with the safety in our city is just not right. The simple answer is "we need our city to be safe, period".
The longer we wait to become aware and do something, the more impossible it becomes to really have an effect. This is just a fact of life. Ask any Cleveland police officer thats been around awhile.

It won't be done by people who are not willing to actually DO something, even if all it means is take or make a phone call or write something down.

Together we can make a difference.
The time for talk only is long past due. Cleveland's problems become our problems, since again as I've stated, there is no wall with barb wire and checkpoints surrounding our city's borders. To the west, their problems become our problems too.

We need to support our police, and we need to act in any capacity we can. The more the merrier and it can be fun too.

Mark Allan Crnolatas

[Joe Ott]

Enough bantering back and forth. I keep reading the same stuff I read a few months ago when I first started reading this LO forum.

Again I ask, do any of the candidates have the goobers to stand up and say 'yes Lakewood has a real crime problem and unless we do something now, it will get much worse'?

I said earlier on this thread (think it was this one-there are several going on with this theme) I would work with Ken W., Jeff E., and Jim O. on this issue before any of the candidates because it is only these people who seem to agree about the problem and they are the only people I've seen so far to offer a solution other than more political rhetoric and bs. Maybe they have said it and I missed it.

As others have said, Lkwd needs to get back to where it was known as the city to not screw around in because the police will catch you. Now it's known as the city where it's O.K. not to stop at stop signs, it's O.K. to not slow down in the school zones, it's O.K. to come from Dennison and rough up some kid...

I am also glad to see the change of heart with LO and talking about the crime. People need to be made aware of the crimes going on. More than the selected items shown in the Post.

[Rick Uldricks]

When will these curfew violators be caught?

[Lynn Farris]

I really enjoy spirited debate. However if one of our goals is to get councilman and candidates to post and share their views, maybe we shouldn't beat them up too much when they do.

Councilman Demro has been one of the best about engaging with the public with his views. I haven't always agreed with him, but I do appreciate his willingness to enter the fray and discuss his ideas. Others are more reticent and I can see why. While I am not suggesting that we give up civic debate - heaven forbid, maybe we need to at least respect and thank those who do agree to put there ideas out there for discussion.

I have always said if you do something, you risk making a mistake or getting criticized. Doing nothing is the safer route for politicians and we have many who make a career out of doing as little as possible except for glad handing people and smiling. It is my opinion that you should try 100 different things to improve our city assuming you fail at 10% you are doing pretty well and moving the city ahead. However if you are afraid of making mistkaes 10% of the time, you don't do anything.

I do wish other councilpeople would engage more in our discussions.

[Jeff Endress]

I advised my family, especially my 16 year old daughter, of the new curfew requirements. Glad I read about them here.....glad I'm on Ryan's email list, because without those sources, I sure wouldn't have known.

Most citizens are law abiding. They will follow the rules (unless it's a question of speed limits, which I view as mere recommendations), but they need to know the rules. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but notice of it is a good deterrent.

Are we gonna post fliers like we do about leaf pickup? It sure would have been nice if we could have sent a note home on the last day of school. But at least getting the word out will separate those who would obey, had they known, from those who wouldn't, no matter what.

By the way, my daughter's reaction mirrored Joe Ott's post previously..."Are they going to arrest all of us after the Ranger games?"
I told her, with a straight face, that they were converting the unused Franklin elementary as a hold facility, especially for those nights.

Jeff

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
What makes anyone here think that even with a "Expand the Police" levy approved the City Administration would actually spend additional money on Police? We are all very familiar with how the Ohio lottery was going to save our schools with a huge influx of cash. It did bring in a lot of money for the schools. But the State then just dropped what they were putting into the bucket.

If our current Administration wanted to put more Police on the street they could have. They are very good at finding money when it's for something they want. Likewise, if we approve an "Expand the Police" levy, I'm sure they will gladly pull funds now going to the Police to use on their pet projects. My first guess would be on more shiny new trucks, but I'm sure there are other less visible items.

No candidate for Mayor has promised (that I know of) to work to place more Police on the streets.

[Joe Ott]

(unless it's a question of speed limits, which I view as mere recommendations)

No way! I can't believe it. I thought I was the only one who thought that: speed limits are merely recommendations based on current road conditions.

You know, if this country required real training opposed to just handing out drivers license, we wouldn't have such mundane speed limits! Don't get me started... driving is a privilege, not a right... uhg. I'm going to get started...

45000 people die in this country every year due to accidents.

By the way, he never did answer the question about the football games did he?

[dl meckes]

Does anyone have a copy of the ordinance - and its final wording?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Does anyone have a copy of the ordinance - and its final wording?

I have requested it, to post it.


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[Grace O'Malley]

Not one person here can point to ANY research that shows that curfews reduce crime.


Curfews are as effective at reducing crime as banning blue cars would be.

Whether crime is increasing in Lakewood or not, and I've yet to see hard facts to prove the case, it does not change the fact that the passage of the curfew law is nothing more than a smokescreen.

It was done to make it look like SOMETHING was being done.

[David Lay]

Statistical analysis provides no support for the proposition that stricter curfew enforcement reduces youth crime or risk of violent fatality either absolutely or relative to adults, by location, by city, or by type of crime. Curfew enforcement generally has no discernible effect on youth crime. In those few instances where a significant effect is identified, it is more likely to be positive (that is, greater curfew enforcement is associated with higher rates of juvenile crime) than negative.

http://wcr.sonoma.edu/v1n2/males.html

[Grace O'Malley]

David

Thats just the tip of the iceberg. All you need to do is a cursory search of Google or LexisNexis and you will find plenty of studies and research on curfews, ALL of which question their use.

So, council members, were you all deceived by the chance to make it look like you were doing something about crime or did any one of you honestly think a curfew would reduce crime?

Did any of you even briefly look at the effectiveness of curfews?

Or was it monkey see, monkey do?

[Joe Ott]

Or was it monkey see, monkey do?

That's probably a good guess. Or maybe so that someone can stand up and proudly say 'yes, we have problems in Lakewood with crime and thugs, and I'm doing something about! We passed a curfew law.'

[Jim O'Bryan]

I just got a call from a good friend that has a club in town.

They have a summer of "kid friendly" events for parents and kids, or kids by themselves.

They are thinking of cancelling the entire summer of events because of this new curfew law.

The Phantasy, has events for families that start at 6 and provide live music and activities until 11. She did not want her patrons to gets arrested.

So we loose the hoops, not we take away other activities for what was it again?

I still have not heard an answer after the first post and the political verbiage.

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