Charyn
I use the subtle difference as I feel although the marriage ibetween the two is there, the burden on the "community/residents" is far different than the burden on the city. While we need each other and are dependent upon each other, and are sometimes the same thing, in general I see our atcivities and responsibilities as different.
To jump in on Ken's question. There is a misconception on the Observer. All voices are equal, there is no "party line." Even the mysterious VAL has many people working together that disagree on various parts, ideals, and goals. Some on the advisory board like the VAL, some think it is not their cup of tea. There is no "Observer line." You and Michael could form COMPEAU-FAWKES, Inc., and have the same impact on the Observation Deck.
As you know, sitting at computers all day, allow one to be more of a pundit than others. They, you, Ken and I have but one voice, our voice.
.
Visionary Alignment - Question 3
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
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Charyn Compeau
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:11 pm
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Shawn Juris
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:33 pm
There must be something to this difference in opinion between Jim and I and with that I assume that we are not the only two individuals that see Lakewood differently as shown in a few of the other posts. Pertaining to the original question of the challenge in the next year and 3 years, I think that there will need to be change in Lakewood resulting in better tax "value" for the local homeowners. Many, including myself don't see the value in their tax dollar. I would much rather spend my time being educated on what is being provided rather than what is accessible by living in Lakewood. I would be 15 minutes from malls, lake, downtown and the airport regardless of how much I pay in property taxes. It's a deflection not a response to what I am saying is a concern that needs to be addressed to keep at least one couple that is living on the edge on Lincoln. Rather than simply whining about a problem, I thought that I would propose a solution. As I said, my proposal may have holes since I'm not basing this on research but only on opinion. I would appreciate if the response to attracting business stopped being interpreted as turning Lakewood into a franchised mall. It's old, trite and goes against what I have said is one of Lakewood's greatest assets, it's authenticity. I love that the restaurants and bars are unique (with the exception of those that have chained to other locations, and good for them for their success). When it came to the wing cook off, I was glad that the Winking Lizard declined because I was concerned that their product would be prepackaged and not homemade. But I digress. New businesses can keep an authentic feel. Podcasters may be fine. My point was that to match the equipment (which would be the property that is taxed) they would need a hell of alot of it. If the goal is to shift prop taxes to commercial from homeowners then they need to be in storefronts or commercial buildings and have property, ie. equipment and inventory. And please if anyone would like to correct me on that specifically (rather than claim that I advocate franchises) chime on in.
I recognize that there is building underway in Lakewood. I've heard that they're busy approving Cliffs and Rosewood and completing Rockport but while that's great that only produces more homeowner's carrying the weight that I've already said is out of balance for the homeowners. Will a restaraunt solve this, will a Walgreens? No. Absolutely not, because no one will come in from RR or Westpark for something they have around their corner. More than likely it will only create competition for existing businesses (probably the authentic Mom and Pop's that need support not competition). I'm glad that you mentioned a few businesses that are here and I hope that City Hall continues to support them and work to draw in more. When we bring in these businesses though they need to be producing some product (not only manufacturing but whatever they're selling) that can be sold outside of Lakewood. Exports mean that we grow with money brought in from outside the community/city rather than depend on those that feel overly relied upon in the first place.
As for sour grapes, some have them and stew over it then move. I know what I like and don't like about where I'm at. I would much rather voice it, find a solution and be a part of fixing it though. It may not be what is the popular thing to say but it's honest and not what seems to be the routine "everything is great you just have to believe and keep quiet." If everything was fine then we would have a budget surplus be paying similar property taxes to our neighbors and wouldn't be talking about how to avoid further decline.
I recognize that there is building underway in Lakewood. I've heard that they're busy approving Cliffs and Rosewood and completing Rockport but while that's great that only produces more homeowner's carrying the weight that I've already said is out of balance for the homeowners. Will a restaraunt solve this, will a Walgreens? No. Absolutely not, because no one will come in from RR or Westpark for something they have around their corner. More than likely it will only create competition for existing businesses (probably the authentic Mom and Pop's that need support not competition). I'm glad that you mentioned a few businesses that are here and I hope that City Hall continues to support them and work to draw in more. When we bring in these businesses though they need to be producing some product (not only manufacturing but whatever they're selling) that can be sold outside of Lakewood. Exports mean that we grow with money brought in from outside the community/city rather than depend on those that feel overly relied upon in the first place.
As for sour grapes, some have them and stew over it then move. I know what I like and don't like about where I'm at. I would much rather voice it, find a solution and be a part of fixing it though. It may not be what is the popular thing to say but it's honest and not what seems to be the routine "everything is great you just have to believe and keep quiet." If everything was fine then we would have a budget surplus be paying similar property taxes to our neighbors and wouldn't be talking about how to avoid further decline.
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Kenneth Warren
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:17 pm
Ms. Compeau:
Thank you for the gentle challenge on the issue of diversity, for raising the gender divide in communication styles, and for your well-considered articulation of hope the LO may blossom forth with good community relations.
That said, I tackle what compels me on the road to sound community relations.
In 21st Century Lakewood anti-social behavior that storms the norms of a shrinking working class enclave compels my attention far more than a community conversation that probes class, race, and gender filters through diversity, multiculturalism and sensitivity training. While I would expect some to espouse such community-wide conversations, I believe that such engagements move the civic spirit toward difference and grievance as the cultural foundation for the city, tangents not conducive to either good community relations or visionary alignment.
That’s easy for “a white middle-age, middle to upper class, male†to say. And it is, and I mean what I say.
From what I have observed, people who participate in such conversations generally find the experience meaningful. Yet the impact on community behavioral norms is quite limited, due to the self-selecting nature of participants.
It is much like the LO Deck, I suppose, only a different order of peanut gallery.
I certainly recognize the limits of the LO Deck and the challenges my articulations of social theory and norm building must pose, even to “a white middle-age, middle to upper class, male,†like Mr. O’Bryan.
Whether on the LO Deck or in the more richly embodied spaces of the real world, I hope my communication will enhance the other person’s sense of recognition and self.
That’s my bottom line – whether I am speaking with “a white middle-age, middle to upper class, male†or the 21 year old African American visitor from Cleveland Heights with whom I spoke today about smoking, tossing cigarette butts outside the library, job seeking, child support, drugs, military service, astrology and Lakewood. Though I was enforcing a rule, we had a rich conversation in the process.
I speak regularly and particularly in the public space of Lakewood Public Library to people who hardly classify as “a white middle-age, middle to upper class, male.â€Â
I often speak with single Arabic-American, African-American and Caucasian mothers about the behavior of their children and goals we share for their children’s success and how we can help put a plan into practice.
In my previous position, in a community that was 35% Hispanic, I would communicate in Spanish and even visited the home of say a punk who carved up library property, speaking with parents and hoping to solve behavior problems.
It is through an institution, like the public library, that a civic spirit, a sense of belonging to the good order of the city, can begin.
There is theory and there is practice. There is time for their integration. Integration begins with actual human contact and the exchange of flow states in embodied space.
There are other places, too. Perhaps you can inhabit one. I know your are involved in a Church.
It's a matter of care.
All that said, I am what I am with my powers and defects thrown into entanglements of character, class, community, ethnicity, gender and race that make for life in the city.
You may say “The simple truth is - The under-educated, the un-educated, the non-English speaking portion of our city (which is not small) cannot hope to understand your message.†And though I am “a white middle-age, middle to upper class, male,†I am also a man who modulates his message and practice.
Certainly my performance on the LO Deck creates a certain spin-cycle. I don’t believe it’s accurate to reduce my actual communication practice, presence, repertoire and reception to the virtual world.
While my communication will range from functional and serious to novel and playful, depending on the person and situation, my message on the place of norms in the visionary alignment is really quite simple:
Be hopeful.
Get out on the street and talk about hopes and values we share.
Model good behavior for others.
Exert gentle moral pressure on persons detracting from good order.
Create connections on your block so that a person feels a sense of belonging to the community through good behavior.
That’s what I mean, Ms. Roberts, by the way, when I talk about feeling good – creating the environment wherein people begin to understand through emotional intelligence the norms that will lead them to flourish rather than suffer.
Kenneth Warren
Thank you for the gentle challenge on the issue of diversity, for raising the gender divide in communication styles, and for your well-considered articulation of hope the LO may blossom forth with good community relations.
That said, I tackle what compels me on the road to sound community relations.
In 21st Century Lakewood anti-social behavior that storms the norms of a shrinking working class enclave compels my attention far more than a community conversation that probes class, race, and gender filters through diversity, multiculturalism and sensitivity training. While I would expect some to espouse such community-wide conversations, I believe that such engagements move the civic spirit toward difference and grievance as the cultural foundation for the city, tangents not conducive to either good community relations or visionary alignment.
That’s easy for “a white middle-age, middle to upper class, male†to say. And it is, and I mean what I say.
From what I have observed, people who participate in such conversations generally find the experience meaningful. Yet the impact on community behavioral norms is quite limited, due to the self-selecting nature of participants.
It is much like the LO Deck, I suppose, only a different order of peanut gallery.
I certainly recognize the limits of the LO Deck and the challenges my articulations of social theory and norm building must pose, even to “a white middle-age, middle to upper class, male,†like Mr. O’Bryan.
Whether on the LO Deck or in the more richly embodied spaces of the real world, I hope my communication will enhance the other person’s sense of recognition and self.
That’s my bottom line – whether I am speaking with “a white middle-age, middle to upper class, male†or the 21 year old African American visitor from Cleveland Heights with whom I spoke today about smoking, tossing cigarette butts outside the library, job seeking, child support, drugs, military service, astrology and Lakewood. Though I was enforcing a rule, we had a rich conversation in the process.
I speak regularly and particularly in the public space of Lakewood Public Library to people who hardly classify as “a white middle-age, middle to upper class, male.â€Â
I often speak with single Arabic-American, African-American and Caucasian mothers about the behavior of their children and goals we share for their children’s success and how we can help put a plan into practice.
In my previous position, in a community that was 35% Hispanic, I would communicate in Spanish and even visited the home of say a punk who carved up library property, speaking with parents and hoping to solve behavior problems.
It is through an institution, like the public library, that a civic spirit, a sense of belonging to the good order of the city, can begin.
There is theory and there is practice. There is time for their integration. Integration begins with actual human contact and the exchange of flow states in embodied space.
There are other places, too. Perhaps you can inhabit one. I know your are involved in a Church.
It's a matter of care.
All that said, I am what I am with my powers and defects thrown into entanglements of character, class, community, ethnicity, gender and race that make for life in the city.
You may say “The simple truth is - The under-educated, the un-educated, the non-English speaking portion of our city (which is not small) cannot hope to understand your message.†And though I am “a white middle-age, middle to upper class, male,†I am also a man who modulates his message and practice.
Certainly my performance on the LO Deck creates a certain spin-cycle. I don’t believe it’s accurate to reduce my actual communication practice, presence, repertoire and reception to the virtual world.
While my communication will range from functional and serious to novel and playful, depending on the person and situation, my message on the place of norms in the visionary alignment is really quite simple:
Be hopeful.
Get out on the street and talk about hopes and values we share.
Model good behavior for others.
Exert gentle moral pressure on persons detracting from good order.
Create connections on your block so that a person feels a sense of belonging to the community through good behavior.
That’s what I mean, Ms. Roberts, by the way, when I talk about feeling good – creating the environment wherein people begin to understand through emotional intelligence the norms that will lead them to flourish rather than suffer.
Kenneth Warren
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Charyn Compeau
- Posts: 324
- Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:11 pm
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Kenneth Warren
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:17 pm
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Tom Bullock
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:47 pm
- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
My two bits, and the same answer for both the one- and three-year timeframes:
Keeping young talent in Lakewood, making opportunities (jobs) for graduates, and attracting the best and the brightest here. Too many parents right now tell their kids, "If you want a future, move out. If you want opportunity, ship out to the coasts."
If we capture young peoples' drive, creativity, and energy, it propels our city forward. Gives us an injection of new enthusiasm and belief that we can climb the mountain, overcome the challenges.
Long-term, this is a regional economy challenge that Lakewood can play its role in, but not control.
Short-term, we can build on Lakewood's strength as a livable community, an attractive place to live, filled with interesting neighbors and teeming with life. We can do even better if we spruce up main street commerce so we compete for the shoppers and residents now going to Crocker Park and Avon. (NOTE: those are only a piece of Lakewood's diverse pie, but it's a crucial target demographic. It doesn't have to be in Lakewood, and it won't--unless we compete for it.)
Keeping young talent in Lakewood, making opportunities (jobs) for graduates, and attracting the best and the brightest here. Too many parents right now tell their kids, "If you want a future, move out. If you want opportunity, ship out to the coasts."
If we capture young peoples' drive, creativity, and energy, it propels our city forward. Gives us an injection of new enthusiasm and belief that we can climb the mountain, overcome the challenges.
Long-term, this is a regional economy challenge that Lakewood can play its role in, but not control.
Short-term, we can build on Lakewood's strength as a livable community, an attractive place to live, filled with interesting neighbors and teeming with life. We can do even better if we spruce up main street commerce so we compete for the shoppers and residents now going to Crocker Park and Avon. (NOTE: those are only a piece of Lakewood's diverse pie, but it's a crucial target demographic. It doesn't have to be in Lakewood, and it won't--unless we compete for it.)
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Mark Crnolatas
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:32 pm
- Location: Lakewood, Ohio
Challenge
From an "on the street" level, I see the challenges for our city and us, it's inhabitants, in a year and 3 years, as facing some things that seem is either politically incorrect or possbily just "not said ".
The comment of the guns and graffiti, I agree with. For a couple of years I've been talking safety and what to do ahead of the problems heading our way. For years I've been called an alarmist, pessimest, and other things, yet yesterday while coming home from shopping, we watched a gathering of the boyzzz, 5 maybe, diverse in race, complete with with baggy draggers, hip hop loud music from some unknown source, pushing and shoving each other, "yo mama" jokes at each other , but all non-violent within themselves. What we also saw was a jogger cross the street making it obvious he wanted to avoid this group, (tho there was room to jog through) as well as a man and woman walking their dog, who also crossed the street, again making it obvious to go around this group.
While this one incidence doesn't define Lakewood, it's just not "comfortable" to see for those that crossed the street. Back in highschool, I hung with guys that people crossed the street to avoid. We didn't however define any future of the city. I believe this display, more seen around W110th/Lorain vs Lakewood, IS having an impact on its long time residents, and professionals. (off the point, did you know theres only 1 general surgeon that I coud find that hasn't moved out of Lkwd, to points west? MANY MANY MDs have moved west and out of Lkwd. Can anyone tell me why?)
I'm going to say something that will either make me appear honest, as I strive to be, or looked down on and who knows what.
At one point in the 70s I had business on the gold coast. Financially I was feeling pretty nice. Drove an almost new Lincoln, wore suits I had to go downtown to have made, and I liked it. I saw very little of Detroit and almost none of Madison. I went east or west to shop, mainly and I liked it.
The problems of who was hanging out at the parks or street fcorners meant absolutly nothing to me, nor to anyone I knew on the "coast" , and I knew alot of people at the time.
It seems to me quite a few people today, in our city fit this same profile.
Fast forward. I live in the southern part of Lakewood now. Rarely see the Lake, just because its not on the way to anywhere we need to go. The finances are not quite the same, and I DO see from a Cleveland street mentality from working there, what happens to inner ring suburbs.
While the LO and all the fine people on here as well as other organizations in and around Lkwd are doing the best job anyone could want, to keep a positive mind-set going here, I still think the problems we face now in safety and security are only getting closer, and will emulate East Cleveland , Euclid, South Euclid etc IF....and thats the key word ...IF .....we don't become realists, consult the people that have BEEN there, have LIVED through the evolustion of change of those burbs, and then adopt a PREVENTATIVE posture, so our city will NOT have to contend with what Cleveland Police, and Cleveland residents do, just a few blocks east of W.117.
Again I say, we need to increase the LPD, do whatever is needed to keep the peace 24/7. Enough of that.
Btw, only 1 person volunteered PMd me for a community walk/drive watch. (General info)
Another challenge I see from this end of the macro-scope is to HELP those that want to start businesses. How, I'm not sure, and I wish I knew, but the more people we have in our city, either working from home, or from a store-front or office, the more tax base we'll have, and the more money we'll have to work with and on and on.
3rd, How can we get those Doctors, the M.Ds, to move INTO or BACK into Lakewood? The why is self evident, I think.
Buddy and fellow class of '68 LHS, of mine is a surgeon in Dallas. He charges 1200.00 or more for a hernia operation like I had. Let's guess he does 2 a day 4 days a week. ( I know he does much much more). Thats 9600.00 a week. Wouln't a building full of his collegues help our tax base?
The challenges? "Attraction". I think we should attract what is needed to build a preventive and well equipped safety force for the present and future, attract the professionals either back to Lkwd, or the new ones INTO Lkwd, and attract whatever is needed to help the common "Joe on the street" start a business, if he wanted'. This all besides just keeping the status quo on the great points of our city. This all besides just keeping the status quo on the great points of our city.
Mark C.
"A society or group of people exist soley in it's ability to maintain an atmosphere of peace and civility. It's failure is directly relative to the degree of the lack of these conditions".
The comment of the guns and graffiti, I agree with. For a couple of years I've been talking safety and what to do ahead of the problems heading our way. For years I've been called an alarmist, pessimest, and other things, yet yesterday while coming home from shopping, we watched a gathering of the boyzzz, 5 maybe, diverse in race, complete with with baggy draggers, hip hop loud music from some unknown source, pushing and shoving each other, "yo mama" jokes at each other , but all non-violent within themselves. What we also saw was a jogger cross the street making it obvious he wanted to avoid this group, (tho there was room to jog through) as well as a man and woman walking their dog, who also crossed the street, again making it obvious to go around this group.
While this one incidence doesn't define Lakewood, it's just not "comfortable" to see for those that crossed the street. Back in highschool, I hung with guys that people crossed the street to avoid. We didn't however define any future of the city. I believe this display, more seen around W110th/Lorain vs Lakewood, IS having an impact on its long time residents, and professionals. (off the point, did you know theres only 1 general surgeon that I coud find that hasn't moved out of Lkwd, to points west? MANY MANY MDs have moved west and out of Lkwd. Can anyone tell me why?)
I'm going to say something that will either make me appear honest, as I strive to be, or looked down on and who knows what.
At one point in the 70s I had business on the gold coast. Financially I was feeling pretty nice. Drove an almost new Lincoln, wore suits I had to go downtown to have made, and I liked it. I saw very little of Detroit and almost none of Madison. I went east or west to shop, mainly and I liked it.
The problems of who was hanging out at the parks or street fcorners meant absolutly nothing to me, nor to anyone I knew on the "coast" , and I knew alot of people at the time.
It seems to me quite a few people today, in our city fit this same profile.
Fast forward. I live in the southern part of Lakewood now. Rarely see the Lake, just because its not on the way to anywhere we need to go. The finances are not quite the same, and I DO see from a Cleveland street mentality from working there, what happens to inner ring suburbs.
While the LO and all the fine people on here as well as other organizations in and around Lkwd are doing the best job anyone could want, to keep a positive mind-set going here, I still think the problems we face now in safety and security are only getting closer, and will emulate East Cleveland , Euclid, South Euclid etc IF....and thats the key word ...IF .....we don't become realists, consult the people that have BEEN there, have LIVED through the evolustion of change of those burbs, and then adopt a PREVENTATIVE posture, so our city will NOT have to contend with what Cleveland Police, and Cleveland residents do, just a few blocks east of W.117.
Again I say, we need to increase the LPD, do whatever is needed to keep the peace 24/7. Enough of that.
Btw, only 1 person volunteered PMd me for a community walk/drive watch. (General info)
Another challenge I see from this end of the macro-scope is to HELP those that want to start businesses. How, I'm not sure, and I wish I knew, but the more people we have in our city, either working from home, or from a store-front or office, the more tax base we'll have, and the more money we'll have to work with and on and on.
3rd, How can we get those Doctors, the M.Ds, to move INTO or BACK into Lakewood? The why is self evident, I think.
Buddy and fellow class of '68 LHS, of mine is a surgeon in Dallas. He charges 1200.00 or more for a hernia operation like I had. Let's guess he does 2 a day 4 days a week. ( I know he does much much more). Thats 9600.00 a week. Wouln't a building full of his collegues help our tax base?
The challenges? "Attraction". I think we should attract what is needed to build a preventive and well equipped safety force for the present and future, attract the professionals either back to Lkwd, or the new ones INTO Lkwd, and attract whatever is needed to help the common "Joe on the street" start a business, if he wanted'. This all besides just keeping the status quo on the great points of our city. This all besides just keeping the status quo on the great points of our city.
Mark C.
"A society or group of people exist soley in it's ability to maintain an atmosphere of peace and civility. It's failure is directly relative to the degree of the lack of these conditions".