Fairview School District Takes Action - Will Lakewood?

[Bill Call]

The Fairview School system recently anounced a 22% reduction in the number teachers employed by the district. The reduction was made possible by declining enrollment and cutting class periods from 51 to 50 minutes.

These reductions will save $2.6 million dollars per year.

A similar program in Lakewood Schools would save about $6 million dollars per year. Such a savings would negate the need for a school levy for the next ten years.

The alternative is a 3% property tax rate.

Which do you prefer?

[Grace O'Malley]

I'll gladly pay more if it means not sinking to the level of FP schools.

Fairview schools don't have a great reputation. Ask a college admissions officer for an opinion.

[Bill Call]

I'll gladly pay more if it means not sinking to the level of FP schools.

Fairview schools don't have a great reputation. Ask a college admissions officer for an opinion.

Fairview Park Schools outperform Lakewood Schools by every measure.

[Grace O'Malley]

Which only proves that the so called measurements do not accurately reflect what the school provides or how well they make use of the money they do have.

Do a little investigating, Bill. Speak with college admissions officials and find out how well prepared the students are from area high schools. Talk to professors that teach freshman courses. Then come back here and tell me Fairview does a better job than Lakewood. Or Westlake or Bay for that matter.

[Charyn Varkonyi]

Bill,

You have asked a leading question, designed to solicit the answer you want by asking people to choose between two options that are not presented in the same manner.

Where you indicate the change in the number of teachers, the change in the class period, and the instigating cause of declining enrollment for Fairview Park, you do not provide anything that prove that the metrics of the Lakewood school systems are the same, or similar to, the initial conditions of Fairview Park.

You only present an income tax number that is double our current number - something you can be certain will creative a negative reaction.

You then ask what we would prefer??

Speaking only for myself, I am insulted by your assumption that a reasonable person would not see through your ruse.

As for the actual issue at hand -

I want to know the student teacher ratios in regular classes at each level, and in special ed classes in every category for comparison. I want to know the average teachers salaries and compensation packages. I want to know the cost of administration, etc...

Then we can talk about solutions. We cannot just assume that a solution that is best for another community is best for ours - that is foolishness at its most dangerous.

I would submit to you that we investigate our school from the top down because from the information I have we have a lot of money flowing out of the system before it even gets near our children. i.e. high level administrators that retire and then, while receiving their full retirement benefits, get hired back into their old jobs at the same (or similar) rates of pay. Want to go on a tirade--- go there--- dont go after the teachers that are left to fix much with little.

JMO

Peace,
~Charyn

ps- in the interest of full disclosure this information was provided to me by an individual that works within the school system, but has NOT been verified and further discussion would require more investigation as to the truthfulness and rationale behind this/these occurrence(s).

[Phil Florian]

This also hasn't been verified but I think a small amount of teachers have been RIFed this upcoming contract year. I think it is more not replacing retiring teachers but I think some teachers are also seeing that their contracts aren't being renewed. Aren't Lakewood teachers paid less than any other suburban school district in the area? I don't think this is a deal of overpaid teachers with bloated salaries and benefits. Lakewood teachers could easily go to other districts to make more money but instead have one of the more loyal and dedicated teaching crews who have incredible longevity. They are a great resource.

I agree with Charyn, let's look at the entire budget and see where the real waste is located. I would want to know expenses have been cut in areas that don't directly affect the students before a single teacher has been let go. If this administrator deal is a problem, that should be addressed first and foremost. No offense to fine administrators, but I would rather see some high salary administrators let go permanently so that a couple teachers could remain in their positions.

I think the school district would be cool if they opened up the budget process to as much public involvement as they did with the new building program. That way, interested citizens could get a real-world view of what schools have to work with and see if a group of dedicated Lakewoodites could make the hard decisions and, if need be, decide whether a tax increase was needed or more cuts were needed.

[Bill Call]

Aren't Lakewood teachers paid less than any other suburban school district in the area?

Lakewood teachers are amoung the highest paid in the state.

Cuyahoga County is one of the highest taxed county's in the country. Lakewood is one of the highest taxed city's in the county. Unless the school system and the city government are willing to take a hard look at how they do business Lakewood is heading for a hard landing.

As middle class and upper middle class residents flee our high tax environment those that are left are going to have to share an ever greater burden which will lead to an accelerating loss of population.

In the last 18 months there has been a 300% increase in the amount of section 8 housing in Lakewood. Taxpaying citizens are being replaced by low or no tax paying citizens. How will higher taxes afffect that shift in population?

The City income tax revenues have been flat for the last several years. In future years those revenues will decline. The City has depended on increases in property tax revenue to maintain the current level of spending. Those increases in valuation will soon end. Sooner or later we are going to have to answer the question:

What is the value of a house that cannot be rented and cannot be sold?

Or a more fundamental question:

Do the schools and City government exist to provide employment for government employees or to provide services to the residents?

[Charyn Varkonyi]

Bill,

You should clarify when you are referring to income tax and when you are referring to real estate tax - they are two very different things.

As far as income tax is concerned - Lakewood is one of the lower in the area, not higher. The most common income tax rate that I saw when working at the tax office was 2%... Lakewood is at 1.5% This tax is applied to both individuals that work within Lakewood and those that live within Lakewood - with a credit being given to those that live in Lakewood, but work outside of Lakewood, for taxes paid to the community in which they work.

Real Estate tax is at a ~2.6% rate. You are correct in stating is in the high end of the Cuyahoga County spectrum; however, I this is paid regardless of whether a house is occupied, unoccupied, rented, section 8, etc. If there are tax reductions for the property owner for renting Sec 8, I am unaware of them, and I am certain that you pay your taxes on vacant houses. So that status has NO impact on our real estate tax base that I know of.

Real estate tax is completely different issue than income tax and the two need to be viewed distinctly if we are to make intelligent decisions as far are tax cuts and appropriate spending and savings measures.

FFT

Clarifyingly,
~Charyn

[Bill Call]

Bill,


Real Estate tax is at a ~2.6% rate. You are correct in stating is in the high end of the Cuyahoga County spectrum; however, I this is paid regardless of whether a house is occupied, unoccupied, rented, section 8, etc. If there are tax reductions for the property owner for renting Sec 8, I am unaware of them, and I am certain that you pay your taxes on vacant houses. So that status has NO impact on our real estate tax base that I know of.~Charyn

The total tax burden in Lakewood is substantially higher than the tax burden in surrounding cities. Other city's have higher income tax rates but also offer 100% credits for taxes paid to other cities.

The increase in the number of low income residents, as evidenced by the 300% increase in section 8 housing, has a substantial affect on the value of real estate. Since property tax rates are based on assessed valuation when valuations begin to fall so will property taxes collected.

[Joan Roberts]

Mr. Call.

A few facts on this which you may investigate with the schools to verify. In fact, I urge you to check them out.

1 Lakewood has been gradually reducing force for several years, through attrition and outright reductions. There is no need to cut 22 percent of the work force at once, if you've been doing it all along.

2. Lakewood's student-teacher ratio is within state standards. One problem is that Lakewood has clung to its neighborhood schools, so that an elementary school class at for example Frankln may have only 20 kids (as opposed to the average of 23-24). But those 20 kids still need a full-time teacher, do they not? It's impractical to redraw the district maps every year, so ratios may be a bit uneven. And what if you have 38 first-graders at another school? You can't have one teacher for 38 kids, so you split them up into 2 19s. That's the "Lakewood we want" as someone described it.


( Speaking of descriptions, I see the paper that was accused of not ever having any Lakewood news carried a story about this yesterday. The Sun Post story about this year's budget reductions is available online, bolstering my point that NO single source of news is enough in a city our size).


3 Federal and state laws mandate extra help for special needs children, which account for almost 20 percent of Lakewood students. This skews the number of FTEs. The requirements are there but not the funds to go with them. On this score, I agree with Dr. Estrop and the board.


4 The enrollment decline has peaked and is slowing. The lowest projected numbers don't appear to be happening. Rather than declining, Lakewood enrollment is somewhat flattening.

5 There will be more cutbacks in another 2 yrs, when the full effects of closing schools kick in.

6 Lakewood per-pupil spending is just about in the middle of Cuyahoga County. That would not suggest a lot of "waste" going on. If there is waste to be uncovered in a district that spends a little over $10,000, what of districts that spend $14,000, $15,000 or more?

Again, through my children and my activities and my contacts, I'm pretty up to date on what's happening in Lakewood schools., and if you've read my other posts, I have never hestitate to be critical when it's warranted. Again, anyone is free to check out any of the assertions I've made above and if you can offer EVIDENCE that any of them are wrong, please share.
I'm open for the liveliest discussion, but please bring your facts. I do.

[Jeff Endress]

While Bill cites section 8 housing increases as an indicator of property declines, I'm not sure that one can use the analysis of a "300%" increase...sounds huge and scary, but knowing what the actual number of new section 8 units MIGHT be of some use in the analysis. Did we increase from 100 to 300 units....2 to 6 ? And what is the proportionate share and increase of section 8 in all Lakewood housing? Those figures would be meaningful. (And by the way, with Rockport coming on line, what are the same numbers for NON section 8 housing?).

What is missing here is a thorough examination of interrelated factors. If lower tax rates make for more desirable housing, then why aren't young families flocking into Cleveland? Why aren't people leaving Shaker in droves to take advantage of the low tax rate in East Cleveland? Obvious answer, the schools suck, service is sub par One prime consideration of any family buying a home s the quality of the schools. Another is the delivery of essential city services. So, saving taxes at the expense of the schools or to achieve a services savings through reduction is short sighted as your property devalues.

And to further amplify on whether Lakewood has a quality system...one must recognize that Lakewood ends up educating a considerable majority of special needs students who reside in other districts....(You can watch the buses arriving every morning....Parma, North Olmsted, River, Bay and on and on). These difficult educational problems are not included on the ratings of the school systems that slough them off to Lakewood, but on Lakewood

Jeff

[Bill Call]

I guess the answer is no.

[Joan Roberts]

I guess the answer is no.

If the answer is 'no". what's the question?

Mr. Call, I presented a number of clearly-stated, rather cogent facts for your consideration. I've seen no rebuttal or response, so I presume that you've either blown off my points, or that I'm right in my perspective.

On the debate stage, I've spoken to an empty chair. I find that strangely unsatisfying.

[Bill Call]

Ms. (Miss) (Mrs.) (O Exalted One) ? Roberts:

According to Lakewood City Schools Five Year Forecast the district is anticipating increasing expenditures by 16.7% from 2005 to 2009. That increase will occur despite "continuing declining enrollment" and the closing of school buildings. They are anticipating an 18% increase in pay and benefits for district employees during that same time period even though the number of employees will decline.

Fairview Park's original Five Year Forecast projected even greater increases in spending than Lakewood. Their bold steps to control costs will mean that in 2009 Fairview should have a positive unreserved fund balance rather than the originally projected negative balance of $10,677,377.

Lakewood is anticipating a negative fund balance of $11,335,694 in 2009.
The cumulative deficit for 2006 through 2009 is projected to be $28,336,308.

That's $28,336,308 in projected deficit spending.

I know we are talking past each other. I see innovations in curriculum, scheduling, staffing and school management as tools to improve education without crippling tax increases. You see those same things as a threat to education or a violation of federal law.

You rightly take pride in the districts successes and your defense of (most) of their accomplishments are (mostly) justified. Lakewood compares well with similar districts and provides an excellent opportunity for students who are willing to work hard. Most of the schools "failures" are not the schools failure but the students.

The economic reality is that local school districts are not going to be rescued by the State or the Federal Government. We are on our own.

If the district intends to eliminate 28 million dollars in deficit spending by increasing taxes they will devastate the economic vitality of this City.

All I am asking is that they consider other alternatives.

[Joan Roberts]

"O exalted one"? Let me try that on. In the meantime, Joan works fine.

I don't believe I am talking past you. I am trying to address your concerns with some cold, hard facts.

To wit.

The 5-yr forecasts of a 16 percent in expenses are expressed in constant dollars, with inflation not factored in. With inflation running about 2.5 percent, expenditures are just slightly above flat.

Look closely at that budget forecast. My guess is, a big chunk comes from benefits, which means health insurance premiums. They're continuing to skyrocket, and no industry is immune. If you can keep health insurance to 2.5% a yeer, those numbers look a lot different, don't they?

And If you want to propose that teachers bear a greater share of that burden, I'm in your corner. Deal?

The $28 million in "cumulative deficit spending" includes a current $20 million cash balance. The district doesn't go "into the red" untiil 2010 (assuuming no additional tax levies)

Unlike regular businesses, whose expenses and income incrrease incrementally every year, schools in Ohio get a "raise" every 3, 4, or 5 years when they get a new levy. There's a revenue bump in year one, then it stays flat. Yet expenses increase every year,so the "back end" year naturallly show defiict spending. Every projection for every district in Ohio will show the same pattern. On that, I'll bet my next paycheck.

Enrollment, as I said previously, is not spiraling downward as originally projected.

You currently have about 400 teachers for 6600 students. But nearly a quarter of those teachers deal with special student populations, and whether you like it or not, it IS a violation of law, federal and state, not to provide those servces.

Finally, you speak of "innovation" but the only innovation I hear from you is "lay off teachers." If there's something I've missed, I'll stand corrected. Otherwise, the ball's in your court.